Bellaing
Bellaing
Joined: Feb 15, 2017
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March 15th, 2017 at 12:52:26 AM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

Exactly so, darkoz!

Now, where are all our WoV members from UK hiding? Is this story getting any press -- I mean, serious press, don'cher know? -- on the East side of the Pond? Seems some publications -- law journals? gaming newsletters? national magazines? etc. -- would have kicked this story around some. Who knows the star-dot-co-dot-UK internet links that present an "informed" perspective of this matter? C'mon, c'mon. We can hear all of you UK members in there keeping quiet.



There is actually decent media coverage including article in Telegraph and also articles in every at least half decent gambling related news website - just google "phil ivey against casino"..
StevenHowdin
StevenHowdin
Joined: Dec 21, 2016
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March 15th, 2017 at 4:11:25 AM permalink
Whether Phil is right or wrong, just be happy. I think he's done well enough!!
Fun loving bloke, absolutely love music and going to Ibiza. Girls, banter... love it!
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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March 15th, 2017 at 4:02:58 PM permalink
The most publicised case to go to the [UK] Supreme Court recently was about Article 50; the main reason because it was of national interest even though the previous decision was unlikely to be overturned. Commentary on that suggested that in most cases going this far, the facts have been agreed, and the appeal is usually only on clarifying legal matters or definitions.


At a guess [Section 42 of the Gambling Act] someone commits an offence if they are the person who actually "cheats" or ... interferes with the process (regardless of whether they profit from it). It doesn't really say what happens if you didn't interfere or cheat, but took advantage of a situation. It also doesn't define "cheat".

I'm also guessing that there are casino rules - which is the only reason the casino can say they're not paying - and they say something like if you cheat we don't payout.


So perhaps the reason this is being heard is to enable clarification of what "cheating" actually means.
gordonm888
gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
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March 15th, 2017 at 4:45:30 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Before taking bets research what the gambling law being questioned in england is

Im not sure completely but from what i recall there is some statute that wagers must be honored unless cheating is involved hence the confusion being taken up by their supreme court

If ivey did not cheat as stated clearly by lower court judges and no charges being pressed well then the statute says he should be paid



How is British law controlling on US casinos?
bbvk05
bbvk05
Joined: Jan 12, 2011
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March 15th, 2017 at 4:57:58 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

How is British law controlling on US casinos?




It's not controlling, its persuasive. The analysis given in a similar situation by a British judge is very relevant. American states will look at sister state court rulings, even though they are in no way controlling.
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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March 15th, 2017 at 4:58:06 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

How is British law controlling on US casinos?



It's not. He pulled this BS move off twice. Once in England and once in the US.

Edit: Given bbvk's response, there could be some influence from the first decision. This would be good for Ivey imo as I want to say British law is more vague on this act. I think both were ruled correctly already, but New Jersey was an easier decision based on their fraud and swindling laws.
speedycrap
speedycrap
Joined: Oct 13, 2013
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March 15th, 2017 at 6:17:35 PM permalink
I will put up US$100 to win US$150. I will leave my money with Soopoo. Will u take it Wizard???? Only the court will rule in Ivey's favor. Money collected or not by him does not affect OUR outcome.
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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March 16th, 2017 at 4:39:36 AM permalink
If I'm not mistaken, I've heard of BJ card counters having their money confiscated from the casino (buy in included) for breaking the casino's rules of "no card counting", at least in London.....so I imagine just that alone would be very beneficial for the casino, trying to swindle Ivey out of his winnings just by saying, "He broke our rules".....which I think is total BS. Morally or ethically or whatever, Ivey should win the case. But in reality, who knows what'll happen. But I take it the supreme court taking on the case is at least a good sign.


The case with Borgata was a total sham. Look at what the judge said about a casino and essentially their right to have an advantage otherwise it's unfair for the casino. (IE: All advantage play.) Oh, and he somehow "broke the rules" but didn't "cheat".....the court forgot about the part where the CASINO was the one breaking the rules (look up NJ regulations on dealing baccarat). Not to mention the court's complete misunderstanding of how edge-sorting works, what a sorted deck is, and a marked deck. A deck of cards with uneven backs is inherently "marked" by the court's definition, even without introducing a turn during play. By the court's definition, the casino introduced an inherently marked deck into play and permitted it to be used....and if they ever still or did use that type of card-back in the past, they were using "marked cards" back then or now, too (given their definition of "marked cards/deck").
"What would Brian Boitano do?"
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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March 16th, 2017 at 3:17:11 PM permalink
They'll never pay him no matter what
the outcome. I wouldn't if I were them.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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March 16th, 2017 at 3:53:26 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

They'll never pay him no matter what
the outcome. I wouldn't if I were them.



There are lots of people who can avoid paying someone but usually not casinos. There are legal channels i imagine even in UK to collect from major corporations if ivey pulls out a win

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