Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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March 9th, 2017 at 3:08:24 AM permalink
Can my taxes go for a normal healthcare system that I get to participate in, and the taxes of Clinton/Bush supporters go to pay off the Iraq war?

I'd buy that for a dollar.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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March 9th, 2017 at 4:32:40 AM permalink
Quote: Hullabaloo

for people that don't have insurance, (and even for those that do), you might want to check:

https://www.goodrx.com/

I've gotten things for about $25 that had a $300+ retail price.



Thanks, but that's where I comparison shopped to mention the quote. I like them, too.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
Paradigm
Paradigm
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March 9th, 2017 at 9:11:53 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

They're the best argument out there for single-payer systems.


The single payer system we have out there right now is Medicare. Would you be up for paying your current insurance premiums to Medicare directly and becoming covered entirely by that system?

Would that solution work for everyone...those that want single payer can opt into Medicare early in exchange for a premium payment in addition to Medicare Taxes and those that want to stay in the private insurance world would figure it out in the private insurance marketplace and pay Medicare Tax for coverage after age 65?

Medicare infrastructure is already set up, so it would seem like the easiest way to address both sides of the debate and perhaps find common ground.

Portability of private insurance coverage, competition across state lines as well as some requirement for private insurers to enroll their pro-rata share of "pre-exisiting" condition patients would need to be kept/put in place in the private insurance marketplace as this shift cannot just dump all "undesirable" insureds on to Medicare System.

I don't know...it's a thought. Bottom line is I don't think you have the public political consensus out there to put a single payer system in place that everyone has to be a part of...it is still looked at as not the American Way, regardless of whether you personally think the "American Way" has any merit.
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steeldco
steeldco
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March 9th, 2017 at 9:34:54 AM permalink
At the risk of being repetitive, I would like to see people like myself be exempted from paying anything into the educational system and let the young, who apparently don't feel a need to have health insurance because they purportedly don't need it, pay up for their kids' education.....since I shouldn't have to.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
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March 9th, 2017 at 11:29:49 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

The single payer system we have out there right now is Medicare. ... Medicare infrastructure is already set up, so it would seem like the easiest way to address both sides of the debate and perhaps find common ground.



Clearly different folks feel differently about medical insurance. However, Medicare uses two different (statutorily required -- probably by the Bureau of Redundancy Bureau) methods by which it annually reports its administrative overhead, according to Physicians for a National Health Program, here:

Medicare Administrative Costs

Reports to the Medicare Boards of Trustees indicate Medicare’s administrative expenditures are 1 percent of total Medicare spending. The other calculation is in the National Health Expenditure Accounts (NHEA), and that calculation of Medicare administrative overhead indicates the figure is 6 percent. The link explains the differences between how the two figures are calculated.

But, at 6 percent administrative overhead, Medicare beats any and all private insurance programs hands down. Seems to me it's a no-brainer to hook into Medicare if someone ever gets the opportunity. No, it doesn't cover everything, but folks can still purchase supplemental insurance, and Medicare has a smooth-working partnership with other insurance (at least in my experience).

As far as I know, the only state with a (near) universal health insurance requirement is Massachusetts, the plan used as a general pattern for the Affordable Health Care Act. So, how is it doing? Well, according to the AMA study below, about 94% of non-elderly residents had health insurance in 2013 (most recent data at time of publication). Insured adults were surveyed on these areas: Service availability, freedom to choose a doctor or other health practitioner, quality of care provided to them, locations of their medical providers, and overall ability to gain access to specialist care. Almost two-thirds of those surveyed reported satisfaction as "excellent" or "very good" in the various categories. Between 8% and 12% reported "fair" to "poor" satisfaction with their health care programs. Here's the link to the report:

Consumer Satisfaction with Health Insurance Coverage in Massachusetts

My strong belief is health care in America would be far better if it had a plan more like that in Massachusetts than what it currently has or what congress is now considering. But, I'm no doctor, so what do I know? Someone else may look at all this differently.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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March 9th, 2017 at 12:16:34 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm



I don't know...it's a thought. Bottom line is I don't think you have the public political consensus out there to put a single payer system in place that everyone has to be a part of...it is still looked at as not the American Way, regardless of whether you personally think the "American Way" has any merit.



"Some 58 percent of respondents support replacing ObamaCare with a universal healthcare system, while 37 percent oppose that plan."

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/279991-poll-majority-of-americans-support-federally-funded-healthcare

This in spite of relentless propaganda telling us how it's good to pay twice as much as other countries for inferior coverage, for everyone but the well off.

If pols and media were even remotely honest on the subject, I'm sure it would shift even more. A lot of people still think Canadians have to wait 5 years to get an emergency appendectomy.

obviously the people of every other country prefer their systems to ours, because they are not insane, so it's reasonable to assume we would too once we had it.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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March 9th, 2017 at 12:28:06 PM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

My strong belief is health care in America would be far better if it had a plan more like that in Massachusetts than what it currently has or what congress is now considering. But, I'm no doctor, so what do I know? Someone else may look at all this differently.


The problem is there is a large section of the American population that doesn't share a willingness to be part of a universal/single payer health insurance plan. To get anything accomplished for the long term on health care you are going to have to provide a way for those that want a non-private insurance plan a "single payer" type option and those that want to keep the private insurance plans that they have had in the past. Forcing everyone on to a universal health care plan isn't the answer...and I say this as someone that is not opposed to a health care coverage mandate, I just want choices on how to fulfill the mandate obligation.

I get that many, maybe as much as 50% of the population, feel the current system is bad due to the profit motive. But that perspective is also not shared by a significant section of the population. Forcing either side on to the other sides idea of the best way to address their personal health care needs is not a sustainable answer. One side will win an election and repeal what is in place, then the other side will do the same when they win an election...why not provide a system that allows the individual to chose what system they want to participate in and just require that they participate in one of the systems?

My guess is you will pay more being on the private side of the equation and likely get better care. But the Medicare side will provide decent basic coverage for those that chose that option. It will be a two tiered system just like Medicare is today...some only have Medicare (A, B & maybe D) and others pay more for Medicare+Supplemental Medicare Private insurance. You will normally have a two tiered system with a universal/single payer plan anyway...those that have means will buy more/better than basic health care coverage offered under the basic plan.
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Paradigm
Paradigm
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March 9th, 2017 at 12:37:29 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

"Some 58 percent of respondents support replacing ObamaCare with a universal healthcare system, while 37 percent oppose that plan."

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/279991-poll-majority-of-americans-support-federally-funded-healthcare

This in spite of relentless propaganda telling us how it's good to pay twice as much as other countries for inferior coverage, for everyone but the well off.

If pols and media were even remotely honest on the subject, I'm sure it would shift even more. A lot of people still think Canadians have to wait 5 years to get an emergency appendectomy.

obviously the people of every other country prefer their systems to ours, because they are not insane, so it's reasonable to assume we would too once we had it.


Well the recent election, as opposed to a "poll" says it isn't quite that big a discrepancy in favor of universal/Obamacare...you can jump up and down about how bad Trump is for this and that, but he got a lot of votes based on "Repeal & Replace"...I am choosing to look as the 49/51% popular vote for the two Presidential Candidates as a closer approximation of the country's views on healthcare than the sample poll you cited. Polls haven't worked out very well in predicting the real outcome of things recently.
Attempting to add value one post at a time
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
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March 9th, 2017 at 12:49:47 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

You will normally have a two tiered system with a universal/single payer plan anyway...those that have means will buy more/better than basic health care coverage offered under the basic plan.



In the late 1990's I advised universities in Australia (not about health issues), so things might have changed since then. Australia then had universal health insurance, but folks could also purchase supplemental insurance. Of the folks with whom I worked most closely, the grad student and the professional staffer each had supplemental insurance. The Department Chair only subscribed to the basic universal health insurance. Go figure.

Unfortunately, your comment that many do not favor universal insurance as a mandate "forced" upon them is probably correct. I haven't checked, but I betcha that was also the case in Massachusetts prior to implementation of its mandatory health insurance requirement.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
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March 9th, 2017 at 12:58:18 PM permalink
True. But Bernie would have trounced him. The Dems really ran the worst candidate they possibly could have. And, in Trump's repeal and replace, I think a lot of people read something more like Canada and less the massive corporate handout, and exhausting ordeal for individuals, that obamacare is.

I have a pretty conservative aussie friend and, like almost everybody, he thinks our system is insane and wouldn't switch for anything. He pays an income tax for heath care. A bit more since he is well off.

He fell down the stairs and broke his arm in a bunch of places. Went to the nearest hospital. Got x-rays, follow ups, even catscans IIRC. Didn't pay a dime. Didn't wait. No paper work. He spends zero seconds per year sweating over different plans, or worrying what will happen if he has a medical emergency.

Instead of that, we hand money over to ceos and shareholders for no reason.

My wife spent 1 night in the hospital for a minor issue and it cost us $3k. With "good" insurance.

But, it's like a lot of things. our country has become too deeply corrupt for something like that to even really be an option. Even if Bernie DID win, it's not like anyone would cooperate with him.

Ce la vie.

At least we have trillion dollar programs for obsolete weapons the pentagon doesn't want.

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