JohnJoseph27
JohnJoseph27
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January 8th, 2017 at 10:15:23 PM permalink
This question is only for VLT state-run casinos.

Do they calculate a weekly/monthly accounting report for EACH Video Ltry Machine in their casino? Suppose they have 5k-9k slots.

Example:

VLT Slot Machine 1
VLT Slot Machine 2
VLT Slot Machine 3

If me and wife uses our FSP strictly on VLTSM1 and cashed out $x,xxx to $xx,xxx for 1 month, will the casino notice such amount has been printing cash tickets coming from VLTSM1? Or do they see it as $xx,xxx has been printing cash tickets from all slot machines in general?

They normally publish their weekly/monthly income report on their gov website, but that's their net/profit income from all of the machines. I dont think they show net/profit from each machine ie 777 machine, wheel of fortune machine, video poker machine etc.

FSP has 0 cash value. If im given $100 fsp and cashed out $90.00, does the machine count it as $90.00 loss? $10.00 loss? $10.00 win?

Thanks
DRich
DRich
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January 9th, 2017 at 7:17:07 AM permalink
Yes, they look at individual machines. In your $100 fsp example the machine and the casino consider that a $90 loss, and a $90 win for the player.
Mission146
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Mission146
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January 9th, 2017 at 7:47:59 AM permalink
Some jurisdictions, such as New Jersey, require reporting of, 'Promotional Credits,' as a separate item. At least, I'm assuming they require that, because that is what the casinos do on the reports. Here's an example:

That's Page 8 of this pdf:

http://www.nj.gov/lps/ge/docs/Financials/QuarterlyFinRpt2016/Tropicana3rdqtr2016.pdf

Also, on each of these, you'll see Promotional Credits Wagered for the Month as a line item:

http://www.nj.gov/lps/ge/docs/Financials/MGR2016/201611revenue.pdf

I called the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement to determine whether or not the Free Play itself gets counted as, 'Slot handle,' but the main person who would usually answer that is out of the office until the 17th. I was directed to an automated thing by the receptionist and left a message there to see if anyone else who could answer the question would be available, so I am waiting for a call back on that and will follow up with you when I get it.

If you mean Class II machines, then New Jersey wouldn't apply, but if by State-Run you mean, 'Licensed Commercial Casinos,' in general, then it would. I would be surprised if any state handles it appreciably differently than New Jersey, but it is possible. That's probably even more possible if they are Class II machines.

If I don't end up giving you the answer you want, then it would really help if you would say what state you want information for. I'm not going to do this for every state until I land on the one you want.

In my eyes, the only real question is whether or not the Promotional Credits construe, 'Handle.' There is no question that if you just play them through and cash them out that the machine has lost money. In fact, the casino reports the machine's overall, 'Win,' so any monies out would obviously go against that. The only real question is whether or not the promotional money constitutes, 'Handle.'

Unless you mean Class II machines, and perhaps even then, the casino certainly has data for each individual machine. Whether or not they look at the data is a different matter, but the machine does log all of its activity in terms of coin-in, coin-out and promotional credits downloaded into it. I've seen all of that information on several screens over the course of the years when slot techs have been working on one machine or another. I don't know how often the casino checks each individual machine, but I do know that they are audited from time to time.
Vultures can't be choosers.
DRich
DRich
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Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
January 9th, 2017 at 8:23:10 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146


In my eyes, the only real question is whether or not the Promotional Credits construe, 'Handle.' There is no question that if you just play them through and cash them out that the machine has lost money. In fact, the casino reports the machine's overall, 'Win,' so any monies out would obviously go against that. The only real question is whether or not the promotional money constitutes, 'Handle.'



Win/Loss calculations are based on the "coin-in and coin-out" meters and on all of the machines I have worked with in recent times promotional credits do not accrue on the "coin-in" meter. There are separate meters to track promotional credits. Many casinos deal with promo credits as a marketing expense.
JohnJoseph27
JohnJoseph27
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January 9th, 2017 at 8:24:04 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146


Unless you mean Class II machines, and perhaps even then, the casino certainly has data for each individual machine.



Hi,

Im referring to NY State in particular.

Here's one of the casinos's weekly report:


'Free play allowance' must be the promotional credits (fsp)?

Here's the statewide nys report:


Edit:


Specific link won't post.
Mission146
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Mission146
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January 9th, 2017 at 8:36:53 AM permalink
Quote: JohnJoseph27

Hi,

Im referring to NY State in particular.

Here's one of the casinos's weekly report:

http://nylottery.ny.gov/wps/wcm/connect/77c9df93-b4e9-44e9-bf91-df430cad4800/Web+Site+Weekly+Report+-+Resorts+World.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

'Free play allowance' must be the promotional credits (fsp)?

Here's the statewide nys report:

http://nylottery.ny.gov/wps/wcm/connect/6a609eee-0370-4972-a835-353718f251ed/Web+Site+Weekly+Report+-+Statewide.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=6a609eee-0370-4972-a835-353718f251ed

Insane numbers!



What you can tell from that, 'Weekly Report," is that the State of New York takes the Free Play Allowance off of the Net Win directly. You can tell that because, if you subtract the Credits Won from the Credits Played the result is greater than the Net Win. However, if you were to subtract the Credits Won AND the Free Play Allowance from the Credits Played, then the result is the Net Win.

Therefore, I conclude it is as DRich said, the Promotional Credits are tracked on a separate meter.

However, yes, each individual machine keeps track of itself and that information can be looked at on a per-machine basis. I don't know how often it is.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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January 10th, 2017 at 6:50:03 PM permalink
So is the bottom line for players that if a machine has paid you a significant jackpot, it is better to move on to another machine, as it may not pay another until the beginning of the next cycle?

If the machines are not "linked" to calculate an overall hold for the whole system, each must have an individual target that it is programmed to hit.

If this is so, what is the length of the cycle (daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually)?
America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, bad-ass speed. - Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936
billryan
billryan
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January 10th, 2017 at 7:07:12 PM permalink
I thought it was the opposite. That a central computer linked to hundreds of machines randomly spits out results and it doesn't matter what machine gets it.
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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January 10th, 2017 at 7:14:37 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

I thought it was the opposite. That a central computer linked to hundreds of machines randomly spits out results and it doesn't matter what machine gets it.

That's true in New York. Most other states' VLTs are not centrally determined, just centrally accounted.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
billryan
billryan
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January 10th, 2017 at 11:42:52 PM permalink
Okay, that's what I'd read when Yonkers opened about ten years ago.
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way

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