Wisconsin orders a recount.
Quote: @realDonaldTrumpIn addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally
It's official: the PEOTUS is a fricking moron.
Quote: ams288Quote: @realDonaldTrumpIn addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally
It's official: the PEOTUS is a fricking moron.
Also, when Donald tweets something this stupid and blatantly false, it's a good indication he's trying to distract the media from something else...
Quote: ams288No.
Why not?
Quote: RonCNate Silver, a former God of Polling to many of you, does not seem to think that a recount will change anything. I guess he is no longer a voice of reason since polling has largely been discredited for this election.
There also does not seem to be a way to give the millions of dollars raised for the possible recounts if they don't happen...so more money goes to the Greenies...and, well, likely Hillary, too.
Me? I say recount away if your goal is a legitimate recount and not just an attempted manipulation of the Electoral College. Your timing is suspect--if there was a potential issue, you knew it way before the deadline for the recount, not 90 minutes before that deadline. It was still within the correct time frame, so please recount away.
Recounting for the purpose of manipulating the Electoral College votes...and threats to the Electors...well, seems kind of un-American to me.
Recounting because you actually think there was cheating or votes were counted incorrectly? That is fine. Oh...but everyone keeps telling us that there is no voter fraud out there...
Have a great day!!
I'm several pages behind, so please excuse if this has been said.
It was.math guys who started this, on about the Tuesday before thanksgiving. They found that, for precincts that used paper ballots in several states, the polling was very accurate as to results. The same (each) state's electronic precincts were significantly off the polling . There was an identifiable factor, iow, but it wasn't identified until about 2 weeks post-election.
At that point, anyone challenging had 3 days to make the WI deadline, about a week on the other 2. Stein chose to try and raise the money to do that, and so far has been successful.
If some entity, internal or external, has manipulated results, we all need to know.
This is not the first the idea has been raised. There have been questions and complaints about electronic boxes and no paper trails since at least 2000. Especially some specific manu (diebolt?) With family ties to someone in politics.
Quote: beachbumbabsI'm several pages behind, so please excuse if this has been said.
It was.math guys who started this, on about the Tuesday before thanksgiving. They found that, for precincts that used paper ballots in several states, the polling was very accurate as to results. The same (each) state's electronic precincts were significantly off the polling . There was an identifiable factor, iow, but it wasn't identified until about 2 weeks post-election.
The discrepancies have been shown to be about 7% in the three states. In each case, electronic balloting showed a deficit in the number of votes credited to Clinton compared to districts where only paper balloting was used. This not only suggests an inaccuracy in electronic vote counting but also potential hacking, since in each and every case, the discrepancy hurt Clinton.
I don't know the math, in whether there are enough votes at stake to change the overall results. I actually doubt it, if the 7% figure is accurate, since that would be 7% not of the statewide total, but only of those locations where electronic balloting was used.
Certainly, especially given the controversial nature of this entire election, we have to find out if Republican hacking affected the results. We need to know if Trump was right and the election WAS rigged after all.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikRecounts are a normal part of just about any election process.
I agree. If there is any race where there is a question and someone files a request for a recount and/or there is a legal reason to do one, they should be done.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikThat Trump is blathering about it shows once again that he has no understanding of how our government works and is utterly unfit to lead.
He understands. You have no idea whether or not he is qualified to lead, but you are always allowed to blather on about how unqualified he is in your mind. I don't like that he tweets so much, but tweets are not exactly policy. I can't think of a President I have totally agreed with on every issue or thing that they have done. If someone did that, they'd obviously be considered someone who could not think for themselves.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikOur resident Trumpers, however, still think he's God's gift to America. RonC and AzDuffman (etc.)'s slavish loyalty to that man would be funny if it weren't so sad.
This is where you go into your pointless attack on me as a "Trumper"; it obviously shows a certain inability to read and correctly interpret many things I have written before, during, and after the election. The kind of people that form opinions in this manner are the type that just want to bait people and are not really interested in any discussion. There are a couple of them here, along with many with which one can have an actual, name-calling free, discussion.
I am concerned about Trump as President. I would also be concerned about Hillary as President, The reasons need not be the same; I just didn't see a great candidate this time...but America did have to pick one.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikDo Trumpers even think about the danger inherent in having a man who is so easily provoked wielding so much power? I've said before that Trump is a jerk. I don't view that in and of itself as a disqualification. What IS a disqualification is that he is temperamentally unfit and has no experience. He should just shut up and let the whole thing play out--it'll probably end in his favor anyway. But just shutting up is not something that appears to be in his skill set.
Obama had no experience; according to him. we have had a fantastic eight years.
I'm wondering if you ever questioned Obama on taking sides on issues before getting all the facts...
I agree that maybe he should not tweet as much, but he was put under a lot of pressure to conform to all the rules presented by various parties during the process (support the Republican candidate, respect the results of the election, etc.).
Quote: RonC
Obama had no experience; according to him. we have had a fantastic eight years.
Obama never said that. You're just being disingenuous, anyway. Obama DID have government experience--he was a Senator. OBVIOUSLY, most folks running for President have had no experience as President. But Trump, almost uniquely, has NO EXPERIENCE IN ANY KIND OF GOVERNMENT OFFICE WHATSOEVER. It's probably true to some extent that a person can grow into the job, as Obama did. But Obama had some experience in government. Trump's learning curve will be MUCH steeper, and his temperament will handicap him.
You see, Ron, when you make arguments like this, you do sound like a Trumper. False equivalences were the Trump stock in trade ("I may have defrauded thousands of people, but Hillary sent emails!") during the campaign. Your comparing Obama's RELATIVE lack of experience to Trump's ABSOLUTE lack of experience is just another false equivalence. When you use the fallacious argumentative style that worked so well for Trump--and is frankly, beneath you--you certainly sound like a Trumper; otherwise, why would you be emulating him?
Another thing that makes you sound like a Trumper is your assertion that he is not unfit for office. That's just...risible. Putting aside his temperament for the moment, his policy statements show a fundamental lack of understanding about what the President does. His impulsive tweets show that he doesn't have any respect for those that don't toady to him. He's tossed off some vague rhetoric about unity, but then he tweets that millions of illegal voters voted for Hillary. That shows a lack of respect for the country he wishes to lead. So yes, Ron buddy, I'm very well equipped to judge Trump's fitness for office. As are you. What's baffling is that you actually think he can or will do the job.
I'm willing to take your word that you're only sort of a Trumper. I'm not interested in "baiting" you or anyone else. To be brutally frank, what you or others think or say doesn't matter enough for me to care one way or the other. Over the last few months, you've made some excellent arguments as well as some borderline insane ones. You defend them all, though, with equal fervor. I understand why you do that.
Quote: billryanSo Trump is claiming there was massive voter fraud, but we should just accept it and move on?
Well, doesn't that mean that millions of people, as he claims, shouldn't have been allowed to vote? If that's true, then we need to do the whole process over again. After all, if millions of illegal voters cast their ballots for Trump, he didn't really win the election, did he?
I'm seeing a lot of stuff in the media that suggests that the OO is turning reasonable and that his handlers and lackeys are managing to keep his worst aspects under control. That's sort of like when your drunk uncle Dan turns up for Sunday dinner halfway sober for a change. You know it won't last. Trump can't break the nasty Tweet habit, nor can he act like an adult.
I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate all Trumpers on helping to elect this thing to the highest office in the land. If only the pain he will cause could be inflicted only on them!
Quote: JoeshlabotnikIf that's true, then we need to do the whole process over again.
Well sure, now that they killed Julian Assange, now you want a replay.
I just wanted to add that the electoral college was NEVER about small state representation (that's what 2 senators for every state is for). It was about protecting slave states in the south (3/5th a person rule).
Another obsolete system for a problem that doesn't exist. I'm with Trump on this one. The EC is a disaster for our democracy. Wait, is he still tweeting that? Probably not. Just another notch on his liar of the year page.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/dec/21/2015-lie-year-donald-trump-campaign-misstatements/
I'm sooooooooooo proud of our pussy-grabbing PE.
Quote: bobbartopWell sure, now that they killed Julian Assange, now you want a replay.
Well, I didn't until Mister Donald Trump told me that the whole election was fraudulent. I'm a little puzzled as to why, given that he's told us that, he hasn't repudiated his nomination yet. But I'm sure he has something "totally awesome" in mind.
And Julian Assange matters as much in the grand scheme of things as that stuff that I keep forgetting to clean out of the bottom of my garbage can. Dead or alive (he smells the same either way).
Quote: Joeshlabotnik
And Julian Assange matters as much in the grand scheme of things as that stuff that I keep forgetting to clean out of the bottom of my garbage can. Dead or alive (he smells the same either way).
No need to explain, Joe, I already had you pegged for an anti-truth kinda guy.
But still, I'm glad the moderators let you out of the cooler.
Quote: bobbartop
But still, I'm glad the moderators let you out of the cooler.
Don't worry, he will be back there fast as Steve McQueen.
Quote: bobbartopNo need to explain, Joe, I already had you pegged for an anti-truth kinda guy.
But still, I'm glad the moderators let you out of the cooler.
I'm glad that talking about me gets you off. You've mentioned me in five posts today. Sort of like when that really ugly girl hints that she'd like you to ask her out. You'd never dream of doing so, but at some level, you're flattered by the attention.
Quote: AZDuffmanDon't worry, he will be back there fast as Steve McQueen.
Want me to save a bench for you, Duffy?
Quote: bobbartopWell sure, now that they killed Julian Assange, now you want a replay.
Did I miss something? Who killed Julian Assange?
Quote: ams288Did I miss something? Who killed Julian Assange?
You can't take anything that he says as factual. I didn't even bother to look up whether it was true, as Assange has nothing whatsoever to do with the current discussion. The man is a self-aggrandizing asswipe, but I doubt that he had anything to do with the Republican/Russian election hacking.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikI'm glad that talking about me gets you off. You've mentioned me in five posts today. Sort of like when that really ugly girl hints that she'd like you to ask her out. You'd never dream of doing so, but at some level, you're flattered by the attention.
Hey Joe. I want you.
Quote: ams288Did I miss something? Who killed Julian Assange?
They cannot confirm that he is alive since they cut his internet and the news of the "dead man's switch". Not only has no one confirmed that he's alive but there appears to be some compromise of Wikileak's info or tweets, some small details that make it seem like it's not original. I'm not exactly sure but Pamela Anderson may have been the last to see him. It sounds serious and I think it's been over a month. I mean, just look what he's gone up against. I don't know how he has lasted this long but he's going up against the United States, quite daunting. I hope he's ok, he's my new hero. Not because I am partisan against democrats, I was just as much against the Bush Crime Family. I want the TRUTH. Julian Assange is a very brave man.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikWell, I didn't until Mister Donald Trump told me that the whole election was fraudulent. I'm a little puzzled as to why, given that he's told us that, he hasn't repudiated his nomination yet.
He has not backed down on his fraudulence charge. He is stating if only legal votes were counted he would have won Virginia, New Hampshire, and (cough) California! So the result of the election wouldn't change, just he would have a much larger electoral college victory, and a victory in the popular vote as well.
Question for the Trump haters and Trump likers as well........ If you put a lie detector on Trump, and asked him who really won California.....
would he actually believe he did????
Quote: JoeshlabotnikYou can't take anything that he says as factual. I didn't even bother to look up whether it was true, as Assange has nothing whatsoever to do with the current discussion. The man is a self-aggrandizing asswipe, but I doubt that he had anything to do with the Republican/Russian election hacking.
That's right, Joe, you keep on believing the Media like a good little world soldier.
Quote: bobbartopThat's right, Joe, you keep on believing the Media like a good little world soldier.
I don't know who the "Media" are, as opposed to the media. That's the Confusion you create when you Capitalize words for Emphasis.
And you know what, bobby--the media are correct far more often than you are. You're the 1962 Mets of accuracy.
Quote: SOOPOO
Question for the Trump haters and Trump likers as well........ If you put a lie detector on Trump, and asked him who really won California.....
would he actually believe he did????
If you put a lie detector on Trump, it would overheat and explode. I doubt that he actually believes his own lies. But he's borderline insane, so who really knows?
I guess that he's saying that out of the seventy billion (or however many he says there were) "fraudulent" votes, ALL of them were cast for Hillary. That's a real insult to the people, when you think about it. If you voted for Hillary, there's a good chance that you weren't even entitled to vote! How else could he have lost the popular vote?? (Asswipe!)
What a jerk. What a charlatan. What a douchebag. What a liar. And he still has the luvvvvvvvv of so many on these forums and in the fetid trailer of Joe Sixpack.
Quote: SOOPOOQuestion for the Trump haters and Trump likers as well........ If you put a lie detector on Trump, and asked him who really won California.....
would he actually believe he did????
If he believes his own lies, he is definitely unfit for office, because that is delusional.
I've read that he is not actually a compulsive liar (by some expert) but I am as yet unconvinced one way or the other. At best he plays very fast and loose with the truth, with about as much concern as someone telling the time of day.
I sure hope the people who voted for him are the first to die if he is a major f***w*t.
That's only fair.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikI don't know who the "Media" are, as opposed to the media. That's the Confusion you create when you Capitalize words for Emphasis.
And you know what, bobby--the media are correct far more often than you are. You're the 1962 Mets of accuracy.
"Media" is supposed to be capitalized. It's not for emphasis, it's a living and breathing entity. It's an army, The Fifth Column.
Am I supposed to know what the Mets did in 1962? I guess that means you're an old buzzard like me. I'll tellya what, old timer, I am the 1973 Belmont winner of accuracy.
Quote: rxwineI sure hope the people who voted for him are the first to die if he is a major f***w*t.
That's only fair.
I wish the world was fair. As it is, though, the people who will die as a result of his rule will be those who did NOT vote for him--the poor, those who can't afford medical care, the disabled who will no longer have access to facilities, and those from all walks of life who die as a result of industrial pollution. Not to mention pandemics, augmented by the lack of available medical care.
Those who anointed him will a) do very well, in the case of the wealthy oligarchy that pulls the puppet strings of the Republican party, and b) do very badly, in the case of Joe Sixpack, who saw Trump as the Messiah who would better his crappy little life.
I actually hope he lasts long enough to really screw things up. The country needs to see exactly what happens when we have one-party fascist rule headed by a psychopath. Of course, if you read history books, you already know what happens in such a situation, but who reads these days?
Quote: MaxPenA lot of posters on this board are going to lose it when PizzaGate is exposed. Wonder if you will still defend?
Snopes has a big fat "false" on this. Which just leads me to suspect Snopes more and more. If it's a secret society of child molesters then how does Snopes know it's false. With or without Pizzagate, there's more than enough smut on Podesta to go around. Whether he spirit cooks or not, the FACT is that he is a member of the Trilateral Commission and does attend Bilderberg. He's for world government, so I can believe any of these sleezy and satanic things on him. It goes hand in hand. World government, destroy America, Satanic crap, spirit cooking, why not? Have you seen Podesta's "art" collection? He's a freak. But a powerful freak.
Quote: Joeshlabotnik
And you know what, bobby--the media are correct far more often than you are. You're the 1962 Mets of accuracy.
Yet I gave my source for claiming property crime is up in my area since they released all these prisoners recently as reading my local newspaper and listening to my local news. You implied I just spouted that off the top of my head. So which is it? The media is accurate, or isn't it? Of course, you cited no source, and you don't live here. That's what I thought. Troll.
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat on earth? PizzaGate?
Quote: bobbartopYet I gave my source for claiming property crime is up in my area since they released all these prisoners recently as reading my local newspaper and listening to my local news. You implied I just spouted that off the top of my head. So which is it? The media is accurate, or isn't it? Of course, you cited no source, and you don't live here. That's what I thought. Troll.
Moderators: suspension for bobbartop please.
Wasn't it John Kerry who orchestrated the internet disconnect at the Ecuardor embassy? Where is Julian? I fear the worst.
I am still on the fence about Trump. I hope he is a real outsider. I was alarmed when he met with Henry Kissinger. But if Trump is truly an outsider and wants to save America, the powers that be are not going to be stopped by him. I don't think he realizes how much evil he is up against. They may be able to surround him and compromise him, but if not, they're not going to be stopped.
Quote: bobbartopYet I gave my source for claiming property crime is up in my area since they released all these prisoners recently as reading my local newspaper and listening to my local news. You implied I just spouted that off the top of my head. So which is it? The media is accurate, or isn't it? Of course, you cited no source, and you don't live here. That's what I thought. Troll.
"Property crime is up in my area" is a much different statement from "property crime is up." Anyway, what I challenged you on, and what you failed to do, was for you to show any causal link. Is that property crime increase due to increased rates of inmate release? Can you PROVE that? How? You gave no actual, factual source showing that other than your feelings, which are not the most accurate barometer of the truth.
You see, bob, just because event A happens, then event B happens, that doesn't mean that event A caused event B. That's high school freshman logic. I am asking you for a depth of conceptual thought that you might not wish to engage in. To you, it might seem logical that all those released inmates are running around breaking into homes. But I asked for actual PROOF of that--and instead, you yes, spouted that off the top of your head.
And calling me a troll doesn't make your arguments any less flaccid or you appear any smarter.
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat on earth? PizzaGate?
It's some sort of Trumper conspiracy theory having to do with Podesta.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikModerators: suspension for bobbartop please.
Am I mistaken, or didn't you say you were going to block me when we first "met" several months ago.
My memory may be rusty, but I clearly remember that you told me you did not need to run to the moderators and could handle anything yourself. I can search and find it if you'd like.
Anyway, if they do throw me in the cooler, I know you will be along soon. Bring a deck of cards.
Quote: Joeshlabotnik
And calling me a troll doesn't make your arguments any less flaccid or you appear any smarter.
It doesn't bother me to be thought of as stupid, I am used to it. I am conservative so I am usually in the minority on the internet. I get called 'moron' all the time. Join the party. But you, sir, are a troll, and I do recognize a troll when I see one. I don't say that as an insult, it's just my very very good opinion. It's ok, Joe, some of my best friends are trolls. I even have a black one.
Yeah sure, as if you respect the forum. Avoid confrontation and don't make this personal is my advice. Even if you could persuade every member to seeing your views, there still remains the world, so what is the point? If your views are not taken, maybe your views or your approach, or your logic, need to be examined. All the advice I'm afraid won't help you because you get off fighting, maybe get off tiptoeing to, by and over the line. It's probably not even fun for you until you get whacked, some kind of masochism.Quote: JoeshlabotnikModerators: suspension for bobbartop please.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikIt's some sort of Trumper conspiracy theory having to do with Podesta.
It's not a conspiracy theory when it's out in the open. Thank you Wikileaks!
Joe, why are you so prone to siding with evil? Other than that you seem like a nice guy. Smart about Vegas. Rough childhood, Joe? Me too. How 'bout a hug.
Quote: MaxPen
Tony, the spirit cooker.
From Wikileaks:
The Podestas' "Spirit Cooking" dinner?
It's not what you think.
It's blood, sperm and breastmilk.
But mostly blood.
From Podesta's hacked emails:
Dear Tony,
I am so looking forward to the Spirit Cooking dinner at my place.
Do you think you will be able to let me know if your brother is joining?
All my love,
Marina
Quote: onenickelmiracleYeah sure, as if you respect the forum. Avoid confrontation and don't make this personal is my advice. Even if you could persuade every member to seeing your views, there still remains the world, so what is the point? If your views are not taken, maybe your views or your approach, or your logic, need to be examined. All the advice I'm afraid won't help you because you get off fighting, maybe get off tiptoeing to, by and over the line. It's probably not even fun for you until you get whacked, some kind of masochism.
Do you think I care about, want to, or reasonably expect every member seeing things my way? Heck, some of you are diehard conservatives. Some of you are Trumpers. Some of you are flat-out stupid. I have as much chance of getting such people to see things my way as I do of teaching my cat to yodel.
I merely want the rules to apply to everybody. If I get suspended for name-calling, so should anyone else. And bobbartop called me a troll. I got a suspension for the exact same thing a while ago. Fair is fair, though Trumpers don't think that way.
And your supposition that I somehow enjoy these confrontations is incorrect. I get no more intellectual satisfaction dealing with Trumpers than I do from talking to a potted plant (though potted plants are smarter and better conversationalists). It's just that I feel their ideas--their bigotry, their hatred, and their stupidity in following a fraud--need refutation.
I'll ask a serious question. Who is hacking the emails? Wikileaks, or Snopes?
I'm done with Snopes.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikI have as much chance of getting such people to see things my way as I do of teaching my cat to yodel.
I merely want the rules to apply to everybody. If I get suspended for name-calling, so should anyone else. And bobbartop called me a troll. I got a suspension for the exact same thing a while ago. Fair is fair
Joe, if I recall, when we first met, you flat out called me stupid. I tried to gain the attention of the moderator and YOU said that you don't need the help of a moderator and you can handle anything yourself. Anyway, the moderator just ignored me. Story of my life. So why don't we call it even. You called me stupid, I called you a troll. Shake hands.
By the way, I DID teach my cat to yodel. Lightweight!
Quote: JoeshlabotnikDo you think I care about, want to, or reasonably expect every member seeing things my way? Heck, some of you are diehard conservatives. Some of you are Trumpers. Some of you are flat-out stupid. I have as much chance of getting such people to see things my way as I do of teaching my cat to yodel.
I merely want the rules to apply to everybody. If I get suspended for name-calling, so should anyone else. And bobbartop called me a troll. I got a suspension for the exact same thing a while ago. Fair is fair, though Trumpers don't think that way.
And your supposition that I somehow enjoy these confrontations is incorrect. I get no more intellectual satisfaction dealing with Trumpers than I do from talking to a potted plant (though potted plants are smarter and better conversationalists). It's just that I feel their ideas--their bigotry, their hatred, and their stupidity in following a fraud--need refutation.
Paragraph 1: Emotional garbage, emotional indirect attacks.
Paragraph 2. BS. You are instigating. You can control yourself by not instigating and not engaging in attacks. "Trumpers don't think that way" Irrelevant, stereotypical, nonsense, limp attempt at sympathy. You get suspended, because people don't like you, and benefit of the doubt isn't worth it.
Paragraph 3.
No I was right about you and you're in denial. Or else you're laughing under a bridge somewhere.
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat on earth? PizzaGate?
The Daily Sheeple - the-disturbing-disgusting-pedophile-code-hidden-in-the-john-podesta-emails_112016
And an opposing view;
Dose - is-this-pizza-place-really-the-center-of-a-satanic-conspiracy
Quote: AussieWhat's the next length of suspension after 30 days? Actually don't tell me, keep it a surprise. It'll be happening shortly anyway.
I believe it's a perma ban (nuke). Wouldn't be surprised if it happened to joe soon, given this insult:
Quote: JoeshlabotnikYou're the 1962 Mets of accuracy.
