7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
• Posts: 1437
August 27th, 2010 at 7:21:09 PM permalink
A discussion at a \$3 craps table made me put together a \$3 place bet house edge table.

At a craps table in Vegas during my last trip there, one player was in a heated argument with another about how bad it was to place any \$3 bets, since it made the player lose more money than a \$5 player. I over heard him mentioning a Donald Catlin article at casinocitytimes.com that proved by simulations a \$5 place bettor lost LESS than a \$3 place bettor.
I have already done those type of sims and will not show any results here.

At Rapid Craps one can make a \$3 place bet on any number and you will be paid the exact payout, not rounded down.
place #bethouse paystrue payoffdiffdown HAIncrease
4,105910115.006.666667%.
5,9577.50.512.504.000000%.
6,8677.20.213.201.515152%.
........
4,10 exact35.406.69.006.6667% 0.00%
4,1035619.0011.1111%66.67%
5,9 exact34.204.50.37.504.0000% 0.00%
5,9344.50.57.506.6667%66.67%
6,8 exact33.503.60.16.601.5152% 0.00%
6,8333.60.66.609.0909% 500.00%

Advice to my \$3 place bet friends, press up to the correct unit as fast as possible!
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
• Posts: 1988
August 27th, 2010 at 7:42:42 PM permalink
idk what u mean by gain an advantage.

interestingly enough, you are expected to lose the EXACT same amount if you bet \$3 on a 4,5,9, or T getting paid 4:3 on a 5 or 9 and getting paid 5:3 on a 4 or T as you are betting \$5 on a 4,5,9, or T getting paid 7:5 on a 5 or 9 and 9:5 on a 4 or T.

(2/5)(4)-(3/5)(3) = -(1/5)
(2/5)(7)-(3/5)(5) = -(1/5)

(1/3)(5)-(2/3)(3) = -(1/3)
(1/3)(9)-(2/3)(5) = -(1/3)

thats not the case for a \$3 bet on 6 or 8 getting paid even money to betting \$6 on a 6 or 8 getting paid 7:6 though.

(5/11)(3)-(6/11)(3) = -(3/11)
(5/11)(7)-(6/11)(6) = -(1/11)
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
• Posts: 9594
August 27th, 2010 at 7:55:11 PM permalink
The key phrase is "rounds down".

It doesn't take a lot of facts and figures, or the IQ of a rocket scientist, to know that when a casino rounds down, the gambler is losing more than when the casino isn't rounding.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition.
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
• Posts: 1437
August 27th, 2010 at 10:31:01 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

idk what u mean by gain an advantage.

edit0001
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
• Posts: 1988
August 27th, 2010 at 11:22:11 PM permalink
lol good luck adding to other peoples place bets. not the least bit realistic.

players dont want to be bothered like that. dealers dont want to be bothered like that.

about the only realistic thing you can do is buy peoples dont bets that wave it off on a 6 or 8. or to place an odds wager behind someones passline wager. anything else is too complicated and will most likely not be allowed.
rudeboyoi
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
• Posts: 1988
August 27th, 2010 at 11:45:19 PM permalink
also a useful formula for figuring out the HE if youve already figured out the EV of a certain size wager is:

HE = -(EV/Wager)
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
• Posts: 1437
August 27th, 2010 at 11:53:07 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

also a useful formula for figuring out the HE if youve already figured out the EV of a certain size wager is:

HE = -(EV/Wager)

Excellent. Thanks and it works great
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
• Posts: 1437
August 27th, 2010 at 11:59:18 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

lol good luck adding to other peoples place bets. not the least bit realistic.

players dont want to be bothered like that. dealers dont want to be bothered like that.

about the only realistic thing you can do is buy peoples dont bets that wave it off on a 6 or 8. or to place an odds wager behind someones passline wager. anything else is too complicated and will most likely not be allowed.

Thanks for the good luck.edit0001
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
Aussie
Joined: Dec 29, 2009
• Posts: 352
August 28th, 2010 at 1:00:58 AM permalink
I find it hard to believe that if you have been doing it for 33 years that not once have you come across someone who felt bothered. Infact, I would go so far as to say you'd find plenty of people who would be not only be bothered but would be quite irritated by someone pestering them in an attempt to grind out a few cents of +EV.
miplet
Joined: Dec 1, 2009
• Posts: 1628
August 28th, 2010 at 6:02:22 AM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

idk what u mean by gain an advantage.

interestingly enough, you are expected to lose the EXACT same amount if you bet \$3 on a 4,5,9, or T getting paid 4:3 on a 5 or 9 and getting paid 5:3 on a 4 or T as you are betting \$5 on a 4,5,9, or T getting paid 7:5 on a 5 or 9 and 9:5 on a 4 or T.

(2/5)(4)-(3/5)(3) = -(1/5)
(2/5)(7)-(3/5)(5) = -(1/5)

(1/3)(5)-(2/3)(3) = -(1/3)
(1/3)(9)-(2/3)(5) = -(1/3)

thats not the case for a \$3 bet on 6 or 8 getting paid even money to betting \$6 on a 6 or 8 getting paid 7:6 though.

(5/11)(3)-(6/11)(3) = -(3/11)
(5/11)(7)-(6/11)(6) = -(1/11)

I play at a casino that uses 50cent chips on their \$3 craps table and pay \$3.50 on a \$3 6 or 8. After 1 hit they ask the player if they want to add the 50cents to their bet, so they get paid \$4. This makes the player expected to lose the exact same a \$6 6 or 8.

(5/11)(4)-(6/11)(3.5) = -(1/11)
(5/11)(7)-(6/11)(6) = -(1/11)