Terror attack at Orlando gay club
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/gunman-opens-fire-orlando-gay-club-report-article-1.2670322
The shooter was identified as xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, 29, of Port Saint Lucie, Fla a US citizen.
Islam or not, this is a terrorist attack. There was apparently some traffic on twitter from ISIS types that an attack in Florida was imminent.
The toughest part of this whole thing is that one radical terrorist (Islamic or otherwise) need only be right once to create horrific conditions. On the other side of the coin, the people working to protect us have to be right 100% of the time and follow laws/rules in trying to do so. Heck, the bad guys don't even have to be 100% right...if only one of the three planes had "worked" as planned on 9/11, it still would have been an effective terror attack.
Gun control won't fix this.
Hating Muslims won't fix this.
We have to focus on doing as much as possible to prevent ISIS from existing. We also have to ask of all immigrants if they are coming to be Americans or to change America to something else.
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
I haven't turned on the news today, oh boy..... Feared the English army might have lost the war....Quote: AxelWolfAt least 50 people are dead and more than 50 others are wounded after a gunman opened fire and took hostages at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, early Sunday morning, police said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/gunman-opens-fire-orlando-gay-club-report-article-1.2670322
The shooter was identified as xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, 29, of Port Saint Lucie, Fla a US citizen.
Just returned from 10 day road trip ( gambled only one, lost $1605, there's your TR ;-)
So now I'm getting my news feeds from Axel, on WoV.
Talk about the rabbit hole ;-!
UK Perspective: Gun control probably won't. Probably too late. But I hear calls for more guns on your streets to help make you safe from such threats. That stance boggles my mind.Quote: RonCGun control won't fix this.
Quote:Hating Muslims won't fix this.
I'd extend that to 'Hate won't fix this'. This guy does not represent 'Muslims' any more than he represents 'US citizens'. He was both and yet he was neither.
If only life was so simple. Bomb the hell out of ISIS strongholds. Kill loads of Muslims in ISIS held areas. Some of the bombed victims and orphans would be ISIS zealots and some would be their hostages. The orphans will hate 'The West' for the death and destruction that they witness. 'Hate won't fix this'.Quote:We have to focus on doing as much as possible to prevent ISIS from existing.
I wish I knew how to break that cycle of hate. I expect it won't be in our lifetime.
Gun control won't fix this.
Hating Muslims won't fix this.
Hilary Clinton and Obama will be pushing for more gun control issues/restrictions etc. Of course the/our Muslim loving POTUS will call for more understanding of his so-called peaceful religion. Obama did say when things get really bad he will stand with the Muslims -- WTF? IMO if Hilary wins the election this country is doomed & we will see more and more of these kind of attacks - more than likely She'll blame America for not taking in more of these non-assimilating bastards -- were being destroyed from within by our so-called leaders.
Don't worry GWAE took over for you yesterday.Quote: TwoFeathersATLI haven't turned on the news today, oh boy..... Feared the English army might have lost the war....
Just returned from 10 day road trip ( gambled only one, lost $1605, there's your TR ;-)
So now I'm getting my news feeds from Axel, on WoV.
Talk about the rabbit hole ;-!
I looked on the latest posted list and it looked like this....
GWAE
GWAE
GWAE
GWAE
GWAE
GWAE
GWAE
GWAE
GWAE
GWAE
GWAE
unknown
GWAE
GWAE
Quote: HeySlickRonC
Gun control won't fix this.
Hating Muslims won't fix this.
Hilary Clinton and Obama will be pushing for more gun control issues/restrictions etc. Of course the/our Muslim loving POTUS will call for more understanding of his so-called peaceful religion. Obama did say when things get really bad he will stand with the Muslims -- WTF? IMO if Hilary wins the election this country is doomed & we will see more and more of these kind of attacks - more than likely She'll blame America for not taking in more of these non-assimilating bastards -- were being destroyed from within by our so-called leaders.
Go away.
Quote: ams288Go away.
You're the one who should 'go away' given the current events in Orlando LOL!!
Quote: HeySlickHilary Clinton and Obama will be pushing for more gun control issues/restrictions etc. Of course the/our Muslim loving POTUS will call for more understanding of his so-called peaceful religion. Obama did say when things get really bad he will stand with the Muslims -- WTF? IMO if Hilary wins the election this country is doomed & we will see more and more of these kind of attacks - more than likely She'll blame America for not taking in more of these non-assimilating bastards -- were being destroyed from within by our so-called leaders.
Sorry to say it Heyslick, but I read your post as somewhat offensive.
If Obama is American, is he entitled or obliged to love America and Americans? I suspect he does. The shooter was American wasn't he? The Shooter might have been the scum of the earth, maybe insane, misguided, deranged, even evil or whatever. Not many are going to step up and express sympathy for him.
I express sympathy to America and it's citizens because one of their fellow countrymen has just meted out death on his fellow citizens. I expect most Americans will dismiss him as scum unworthy of American status. I would not expect most Americans to suddenly preach hate for their fellow American citizens.
Many kind, generous, friendly American Muslims will denounce that guy. Give them that chance. Don't preach hate against them, even if you are not one of them and don't understand their culture.
Some Brits are evil scum, Some non-Brits are evil scum, Some people from each country, each religious or ethnicity are scum.
Hate the scum. Please don't hate the race, religion or ethnicity.
Quote: HeySlickYou're the one who should 'go away' given the current events in Orlando LOL!!
I'm not laughing out loud at you HeySlick. I find your views deeply offensive and I denounce you and will now block you.
Quote:Many kind, generous, friendly American Muslims will denounce that guy. Give them that chance. Don't preach hate against them, even if you are not one of them and don't understand their culture.
No, we understand just how screwed up their culture REALLY is! We need to limit their presence in the US.
Quote: OnceDear
Hate the scum. Please don't hate the race, religion or ethnicity.
This.
It is telling that the terrorist would attack a gay nightclub. Just another of those bastards living in the past hating the American ideals of freedom and equality for all. The people hating on gay and other gender identities in politics, religion and the media have laid the groundwork for this terror attack. Let's push back hard on those guys, we can start here in the forum.
Quote: HeySlickYou're the one who should 'go away' given the current events in Orlando LOL!!
Malicious slur -personal insult. 7 days.
Edit from DT. June 12th, Trump vs. Hillary thread, page 7. In reply to ams288.
Quote: heyslickI don't crawl anywhere - my fingers do it for me --- I'm hoping she'll ban me peramantely, i.e. since I told her where to go. I sure wish I could meet you face-to-face, just to see if your brave enough to back up your discussing & cowardly rhetoric.
Your wish to be nuked is granted. You're welcome.
Quote: CanyoneroThis.
It is telling that the terrorist would attack a gay nightclub. Just another of those bastards living in the past hating the American ideals of freedom and equality for all. The people hating on gay and other gender identities in politics, religion and the media have laid the groundwork for this terror attack. Let's push back hard on those guys, we can start here in the forum.
I'm sorry, but I think your post is attempting to blame people who oppose portions of the GLBT agenda for something that is not their fault. Those who oppose the agenda do not call for violence in their opposition to it, they simply don't agree. There will always be idiots who will do stupid things but we shouldn't let those idiots cause us to simply switch our beliefs to support something which we oppose. If you play that out, it means that a few idiots could control everything instead of having a robust dialogue and working through the issues.
Aside from that, this sorry attack has nothing to do with the disagreement in the United States of America on GLBT issues and everything to do with a perversion of a religion that demands that many of us be killed for our beliefs in things other than what they demand we believe. It isn't just about GLBT, it is about woman having rights, being able to worship as we want, and the very way we govern out country. These radicals would have us living under a from of rule that most Americans could not imagine.
The terrorists have attacked a lot of things other than gay clubs. Targeting one is not surprising--it is something that are against and the powers that be might also think that they could divide America by attacking something that we have some disagreements about. Overall, they could not be further from the truth. Most of our country will unite behind the folks impacted by these attacks, realize the radicals hate all of us, and move forward from there. A few sorry individuals will do something different, but they cannot be allowed to rule the day.
Quote:Hate the scum. Please don't hate the race, religion or ethnicity.
Get out, meet them, talk to them, and talk with your friends and neighbors that are Muslims...........and then you'll discover just how screwed up the religion really is!
I realize that many here want to demonstrate just how inclusive and progressive they are, but that's because they don't really know any Muslims or have any friends that are Muslims. If you can talk with the wives of them, then you'll likely have to rethink the pretentious inclusive posturing.
Quote: KeyserGet out, meet them, talk to them, and talk with your friends and neighbors that are Muslims...........and then you'll discover just how screwed up the religion really is!If you can talk with the wives of them, then you'll likely have to rethink the pretentious inclusive posturing.
I don't know many Americans, but I have friends and colleagues that are Christian, Jehova's Witnesses, Catholics, Sikh, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish,Athiest, Gay, Straight, Male and Female. Some/many of them have belief systems that I consider pretty screwed up. All the ones I have contact with have been respectful of my opinions, which we have occasionally argued about in good nature. I've lived in a poor area in a poor province where there were many Muslims. We lived in peace and mutual respect.
Nonetheless, I'm proud of my inclusive posturing and of the freedom that my multi-cultural country, Nation and continent grants me. I'm not too worried that I've never handled a handgun and that I know of only one ex-colleague who owned a gun. I feel safer knowing that most of our cops and all our security guards and civilians survive without guns.
Quote: CanyoneroThis.
It is telling that the terrorist would attack a gay nightclub. Just another of those bastards living in the past hating the American ideals of freedom and equality for all. The people hating on gay and other gender identities in politics, religion and the media have laid the groundwork for this terror attack. Let's push back hard on those guys, we can start here in the forum.
Seems the facts of this case are somewhere in the middle of these comments (not just yours), as reported so far today.
His father said he was very upset when he saw 2 men kissing in Miami a couple months ago. Possibly happened in front of his young son (unclear whether the father was talking about his own son, or his son's son.)
His ex-wife said he was extremely violent and mentally unstable.
He was born in New York , so an American citizen, living here 29 years.
No evidence so far of ISIS ties, except a 911 call just before the shooting to claim allegiance. The ex-wife says he was devious and would enjoy saying that as a lie to get everyone more upset.
He had an associate degree in criminal justice and worked in security.
Edit: the FBI says they investigated him 3-4 years ago for making radical Islamic statements somewhere (not ISIS at that time) but nothing came of it.
Quote: IbeatyouracesAll religions are "screwed up." It's time for humanity to get out of fantasy world.
Agreed.
Quote: RonCI'm sorry, but I think your post is attempting to blame people who oppose portions of the GLBT agenda for something that is not their fault. Those who oppose the agenda do not call for violence in their opposition to it, they simply don't agree. There will always be idiots who will do stupid things but we shouldn't let those idiots cause us to simply switch our beliefs to support something which we oppose. If you play that out, it means that a few idiots could control everything instead of having a robust dialogue and working through the issues.
I'm sorry, but I think some people are attempting to blame Muslims who oppose portions of Western values for something that is not their fault. Those Muslims who oppose some Western values do not call for violence in their opposition to it, they simply don't agree. There will always be idiots who will do stupid things but we shouldn't let those idiots cause Muslims to simply switch their beliefs to support something which they oppose. If you play that out, it means that a few idiots could control everything instead of having a robust dialogue and working through the issues.
Quote: KeyserGet out, meet them, talk to them, and talk with your friends and neighbors that are Muslims...........and then you'll discover just how screwed up the religion really is!
I know many Muslims. I lived in a Muslim family for a year in my early twenties. I have several friends who are Muslim. I am the godfather to a boy in a mixed Christian / Muslim family. All told I would say I know about 20 Muslims well enough to know about their opinion on terrorism. Guess how many of those 20 would condone any kind of violence or terrorism.
You guessed wrong. It is zero.
They and their groups have not spoken up yet. If you have seen or heard any, please let us know.Quote: OnceDearMany kind, generous, friendly American Muslims will denounce that guy. Give them that chance.
Today they offer their "thoughts and prayers" to the victims.
They should take those thoughts and prayers and shove them straight up their asses.
Quote: ams288Six months ago Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee attended a rally with that pastor who advocated killing gays.
Today they offer their "thoughts and prayers" to the victims.
They should take those thoughts and prayers and shove them straight up their asses.
Obama apologized and distanced himself from the radical views of Jeremiah Wright.
Cruz said that it was a mistake to attend the event with this pastor.
Do they both get the same forgiveness or condemnation from you?
Quote: CanyoneroThanks Ron, my sentiments exactly. Let me change your post a bit to make my point:
I'm sorry, but I think some people are attempting to blame Muslims who oppose portions of Western values for something that is not their fault. Those Muslims who oppose some Western values do not call for violence in their opposition to it, they simply don't agree. There will always be idiots who will do stupid things but we shouldn't let those idiots cause Muslims to simply switch their beliefs to support something which they oppose. If you play that out, it means that a few idiots could control everything instead of having a robust dialogue and working through the issues.
Thank you for not attributing your changes to my post to me. I have a real problem with people who quote one member and attribute (with those quotes) that post to the member when changing the statement to what they want to say on the issue.
I am not blaming Muslims at all--I am blaming Radical Islamic Terrorists. This not a condemnation of the Muslim religion. There are people out there who want to take over our way of life with brutal force. They want us to live in fear of them. They want us to embrace something other than the Constitution and our laws as our form of government. They can and must be stopped. There is a difference between bringing change by working within our system and bringing change by destroying it.
Muslims? Ben Carson said this morning that we should make sure that any Muslim who passes along information helping us find these goons should have our full protection so that we can get more and more Muslims to help weed out the bad actors.
Quote: RonCObama apologized and distanced himself from the radical views of Jeremiah Wright.
Cruz said that it was a mistake to attend the event with this pastor.
Do they both get the same forgiveness or condemnation from you?
I'm not in the mood to deal with your annoying false equivalences today.
Quote: ams288I'm not in the mood to deal with your annoying false equivalences today.
What is false about it? Obama apologized and Cruz said that he shouldn't have gone. Both distanced themselves from the views of radicals.
Quote: RonCWhat is false about it? Obama apologized and Cruz said that he shouldn't have gone. Both distanced themselves from the views of radicals.
Delete your account.
Quote: BretBaierATF agent says Omar Mateen purchased 2 guns-a "hand gun & long gun" in past wk-legally. Even though there'd been 2 FBI investigations of him
Republicans have blood on their hands.
Good thing Benghazi never happened ... right ?
" I swear , I din NOT delete those e-mails " ...
"I SWEAR I did not have sex with that woman"
Ya ... lol ... smh
Quote: BJ4meI doubt the person pulling the trigger was a republican.
Good thing Begazi never happened ... right ?
" I sware , I din NOT delete those e-mails " ...
"I SWARE I did not have sex with that woman"
Ya ... lol ... smh
Benghazi*
SWEAR*
Quote: BJ4meI fixed it and if petty spelling tactics is all ya got ....
you*
Quote:Quote: BretBaier
ATF agent says Omar Mateen purchased 2 guns-a "hand gun & long gun" in past wk-legally. Even though there'd been 2 FBI investigations of him
Quote: ams288Republicans have blood on their hands.
In the sense that gun advocates often give a wink and a nod if their buddy manages to get around some gun legislation to modify or purchase weapons. Yes, I agree.
Alcohol prohibition and marijuana laws didn't really work against the masses desire to give a wink and nod to violators. And it's not working like it should for guns when too many people allow them to be weak.
Do they really care if bad people get guns? Hard to believe they do. Hard for me to support gun ownership until they put their foot down and make sure the laws to keep guns out of the wrong hands are taken seriously. And it will never really work until most of them get onboard.
Edit: amend bad people to include people not fit to own them, like some people with mental issues may be unfit for gun ownership.
Quote: ams288Delete your account.
Whatever. Trying to have any dialogue with you is a waste of time. Interestingly enough, I disagree with more than one person here on many issues. You are the only one who pretty much always is disrespectful to those who challenge your views.
Quote: ams288I'm not in the mood to deal with your annoying false equivalences today.
Quote: rxwine
Do they really care if bad people get guns? Hard to believe they do. Hard for me to support gun ownership until they put their foot down and make sure the laws to keep guns out of the wrong hands are taken seriously. And it will never really work until most of them get onboard.
As the forum nut, I can say I sure do. But not at the expense of freedom. And not by force legislated by folks who do not have one single clue.
The amount of false info, sensationalism, and outright lies pols state about guns is something I could start writing about now and I likely would not stop for the next 80 years. It's laughable. How many programs must we funnel tens of millions of dollars into, when said programs have not resulted in one, single productive event? Forget even a capture or prevention, many of these programs aren't even used. $40mm for ballistic fingerprinting here, it hasn't affected a single thing. Pols demanding high cap mags be outlawed as "if we stop producing them, they will all get used up". As if a mag is a consumable item!
Some of us are sensible. My constant stance of "NO" when it comes to more laws and restrictions is not (at least not entirely) me putting my own wants above public safety. You know I don't care; make your law and I just go get whatever I want anyway lol. But as a savvy gunner, I cannot watch and hear what I have been watching and hearing and put even a mote of confidence in those making the proposals. Especially when those levying the restrictions are those who I consider my and our biggest enemy, and biggest threat to the American way of life.
Perhaps one day we'll get our collective heads out of our asses and address the enormous mental health problems we have, address the destruction of polite society, of moral standards. You know, the cause. Or I suppose we could just keep attacking the effect.
"War is when .gov tells you who your enemy is. Revolution is when you figure it out yourself."
Quote: rxwineDo they really care if bad people get guns? Hard to believe they do. Hard for me to support gun ownership until they put their foot down and make sure the laws to keep guns out of the wrong hands are taken seriously. And it will never really work until most of them get onboard.
Edit: amend bad people to include people not fit to own them, like some people with mental issues may be unfit for gun ownership.
I would be interested in knowing why it seems as if his name was "forgotten" after the investigations. I would have thought that he would have been flagged in some manner if certain things took place, like buying guns.
The injection of "gun control" into this particular thread is not really effective. These radicals have killed in a wide variety of matters; guns are only one choice. They've used planes and bombs, among other things. I don't think that gun control, even banning and removing all guns, would change what happened here, only how and when. A bomb could have done the same thing or worse. Using it as part of the gun control argument only takes away from the real issue--the existence of Radical Islamic Terrorists who want to kill ALL of us...no matter what our beliefs are gun control or LGBT issues.
Quote: beachbumbabsMalicious slur -personal insult. 7 days.
He can just never come back, imo
Quote: RonCThe injection of "gun control" into this particular thread is not really effective. These radicals have killed in a wide variety of matters; guns are only one choice. They've used planes and bombs, among other things. I don't think that gun control, even banning and removing all guns, would change what happened here, only how and when.
Guns are the current choice because planes and bombs are much harder to get.
Gun control will not stop every shooting, but it would have stopped him from buying these two guns last week. End of story.
Quote: ams288Republicans have blood on their hands.
Wrong, the diversity mongers and multiculturalists have blood on their hands and lots of it, hey hey!
Quote: ams288Gun control will not stop every shooting, but it would have stopped him from buying these two guns last week. End of story.
No, according to the FBI, at the last 3:05 press conference, the shooter had two cases against him closed for lack of evidence. End of story.
Quote: ams288Guns are the current choice because planes and bombs are much harder to get.
Gun control will not stop every shooting, but it would have stopped him from buying these two guns last week. End of story.
It would have stopped him from buying these two guns "legally" last week. You can infer that the incident may have been stopped by that, but I would bet delayed is a better bet.
Besides, bombs are a lot more easily made than we'd all like to think.
You are right about one thing--all of the gun control in the world will not stop every shooting.
Quote: RonCIt would have stopped him from buying these two guns "legally" last week. You can infer that the incident may have been stopped by that, but I would bet delayed is a better bet.
Maybe he would have tried to obtain one through his father, who knew he had been "disgusted" by seeing two men kissing in Miami.
Maybe he would have tried to get one through his ex wife. Who knew he was crazy and had an extremely bad temper.
Either way. He would not have been able to walk into a gun shop and legally purchase an assault rifle.
Omar Mir Seddique MateenQuote: ams288Republicans have blood on their hands.
Born 1986
Fort Pierce, St. Lucie County, Florida
Party: Democratic Party
Gender: Male
Race: Other
Registration Date: July 19, 2006 (9 years ago)
Congressional District: 18th
--find the data
guns fault, no need for him to even mention
Islamic terrorism. Whew, I was worried there
was an actual shooter, but it's the gun that
that did crime.
The gunman had passed two extra levels of background checks for special permissions to carry:Quote: ams288Maybe he would have tried to obtain one through his father, who knew he had been "disgusted" by seeing two men kissing in Miami. Maybe he would have tried to get one through his ex wife. Who knew he was crazy and had an extremely bad temper. Either way. He would not have been able to walk into a gun shop and legally purchase an assault rifle.
"The Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (FDACS) shows two interesting facts about Omar Mateen, the man identified by law enforcement as the terrorist who shot up a gay nightclub in Orlando.
1. He possessed a “Security Officer” license in Florida.
2. He possessed a “Statewide Firearms License” in Florida.
The security officer status in Florida has various levels–classes “D,” “M,” or “MB,” among others. And according to the FDACS website, an individual with a class “D,” “M,” or “MB” security license must also get a Statewide Firearms License (class “G”). The firearms license allows the security licensee to carry two guns on his person when performing security duties in the state.
Background checks are required for both the Security Officer license and the Statewide Firearms License. Those checks include thorough criminal checks, too. Mateen would have had to pass such checks to acquire his licenses and possess firearms." liberty eagle
Quote: EvenBobObama came out and let us know it was the
guns fault, no need for him to even mention
Islamic terrorism. Whew, I was worried there
was an actual shooter, but it's the gun that
that did crime.
The gun that should have never been in the hands of a crazy homophobic terrorist in the first place.
So background checks don't do diddley squat vis-a-vis homophobes.Quote: ams288The gun that should have never been in the hands of a crazy homophobic terrorist in the first place.
