$1100 free slot play for $60k coin in or $300 fsp for free?

at my local casino:
gold level reward card = $300 free slot play in March of next year just for being gold.
platinum level = $1100 to $1500 fsp (amount undetermined right now) for just being platinum

normally it takes $200k coin-in at vp to be platinum.
last year they had a special of 60k coin-in just in the month of dec to get platinum. I was already platinum at that time so It didn't matter.

but this year I've been playing mostly poker and am barely at gold lvl ($25k coin-in).

best vp game is 98.9% dw at $5 denom.
$60k coin in = $660 theo loss

1100-660 = +$440
plus increased marketing offers because my adt will go up huge. my adt right now is close to $0.
I currently get no marketing offers. :(
so $60k coin-in for one day will cause a huge spike.

or I could do nothing and get $300 free slot play.

the only benefit that I use for Platinum is a 'free' yearly 7day cruise. I just pay taxes/port fees of ~$350 per person.

So which would you do, assuming you have the time (~6hrs) and $ (I'm bringing $5k cash) to do this?

It sounds like a no brainner to me assuming you can absorb a $5000 loss. Hopefully you would have access to more funds to finish off the play if the $5000 doesn't get you there.

If you are using 98.9 as theo then you are assuming that you will hit a royal and 4 deuces. Both are going to cause a w2g and you will have taxes owed. That would cost you a lot more than your free play. If it were me I would pick the best game at .25 or .50 level and get it done in 2 days.

Your variance would also be lower and give you a better chance of making it on 5k

Quote: GWAE

If you are using 98.9 as theo then you are assuming that you will hit a royal and 4 deuces. Both are going to cause a w2g and you will have taxes owed. That would cost you a lot more than your free play. If it were me I would pick the best game at .25 or .50 level and get it done in 2 days.

Your variance would also be lower and give you a better chance of making it on 5k

best game at .50 is 8/5 JoB (97.3%) :(
besides, my secondary purpose is to get adt as high as possible to maximize marketing offers.

also, all those hours at .50 denum for +$140 more vs $300 for doing nothing -> I'd rather just take the $300.
and it's less than +$140 since I'm playing a 97.3% game instead of 98.9%

(+$140 for 6hrs at 98.9% vp = +$23/hr theoretically)

Quote: 100xOdds

best game at .50 is 8/5 JoB (97.3%) :(
besides, my secondary purpose is to get adt as high as possible to maximize marketing offers.

also, all those hours at .50 denum for +$140 more vs $300 for doing nothing -> I'd rather just take the $300.
and it's less than +$140 since I'm playing a 97.3% game instead of 98.9%

(+$140 for 6hrs at 98.9% vp = +$23/hr theoretically)

Is there a cap to the "marketing offers"? At some point, will you receive the best they have to offer, with no additional gain for exceeding that threshold?

Quote: GWAE

If you are using 98.9 as theo then you are assuming that you will hit a royal and 4 deuces. Both are going to cause a w2g and you will have taxes owed. That would cost you a lot more than your free play. If it were me I would pick the best game at .25 or .50 level and get it done in 2 days.

Your variance would also be lower and give you a better chance of making it on 5k

A W2G does not cause you to owe taxes, winning does. Maybe he could get lucky enough to still be behind after getting the W2G, then no taxes would be owed. :)

Quote: DRich

A W2G does not cause you to owe taxes, winning does. Maybe he could get lucky enough to still be behind after getting the W2G, then no taxes would be owed. :)

That's not true at all unless he is already itemizing. He could lose 5k for the day and have a w2g for 5k. Unless he is not taking standard deduction he will be paying some taxes on it.

Quote: GWAE

That's not true at all unless he is already itemizing. He could lose 5k for the day and have a w2g for 5k. Unless he is not taking standard deduction he will be paying some taxes on it.

Clearly then the answer would be to continue to gamble until your losses exceed the standard deduction. :)

Quote: DRich

Clearly then the answer would be to continue to gamble until your losses exceed the standard deduction. :)

Lmao that is great. I am going to try to convince my wife that next time I have a w2g.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Is there a cap to the "marketing offers"? At some point, will you receive the best they have to offer, with no additional gain for exceeding that threshold?

Yes, absolutely. Every casino has an offer cap. Hosts can give discretionary above the caps for extreme high rollers, but there is a limit to caps where you cannot receive any higher.

Quote: GWAE

That's not true at all unless he is already itemizing. He could lose 5k for the day and have a w2g for 5k. Unless he is not taking standard deduction he will be paying some taxes on it.

I am either not understanding your argument, or I am not understanding taxes. The following is my understanding (only applied to recreational gamblers):

Yes, you have to itemize in order to deduct losses, I agree.

How do you have a win or loss? If at the end of your gambling session, you have more or less money than what you started with.

So if in a gambling session, you get a w2g for $5000 on your first spin, but actually lose $3000 over the next few hours, your gambling win is $2000. You owe taxes on $2000, not $5000. If you had money withheld during a hand pay, you are entitled to receive some of that money back. (It is calculated this way whether you are itemizing or not)

What is a gambling session? It's not well defined, but it's however you define a continuous gambling activity, such as playing VP for threes hours and then leaving the casino to go home. When you leave the casino, your session is over.

You have to pay taxes on your winning sessions regardless of whether you get a W2G or not. However, you can deduct your losing sessions against the winning sessions. If you get a w2g for $5000, but you lose $5000 the next day, you owe $0 in taxes if you itemize to deduct losses. so you have two gambling sessions. The first you won $5000. The second you lost $5000. You deduct losses from wins. Your win for the year is $0. It has nothing to do with w2gs.

If you don't itemize, win $5000 on day 1, lose $5000 on day 2, and never receive a w2g, how much taxes do you owe? You have to pay taxes on the $5k!

Quote: Avincow

I am either not understanding your argument, or I am not understanding taxes. The following is my understanding (only applied to recreational gamblers):

Yes, you have to itemize in order to deduct losses, I agree.

How do you have a win or loss? If at the end of your gambling session, you have more or less money than what you started with.

So if in a gambling session, you get a w2g for $5000 on your first spin, but actually lose $3000 over the next few hours, your gambling win is $2000. You owe taxes on $2000, not $5000. If you had money withheld during a hand pay, you are entitled to receive some of that money back. (It is calculated this way whether you are itemizing or not)

What is a gambling session? It's not well defined, but it's however you define a continuous gambling activity, such as playing VP for threes hours and then leaving the casino to go home. When you leave the casino, your session is over.

You have to pay taxes on your winning sessions regardless of whether you get a W2G or not. However, you can deduct your losing sessions against the winning sessions. If you get a w2g for $5000, but you lose $5000 the next day, you owe $0 in taxes if you itemize to deduct losses. so you have two gambling sessions. The first you won $5000. The second you lost $5000. You deduct losses from wins. Your win for the year is $0. It has nothing to do with w2gs.

If you don't itemize, win $5000 on day 1, lose $5000 on day 2, and never receive a w2g, how much taxes do you owe? You have to pay taxes on the $5k!

When it comes to federal taxes your session is the calendar year. So if you win 5k on your first spin and then give it all back in the same day you will still be taxed on the 5k.

This is the problem with the US tax code when it comes to gambling. Imagine how much worse it will be if they make the w2g amount $600.

Quote: GWAE

When it comes to federal taxes your session is the calendar year. So if you win 5k on your first spin and then give it all back in the same day you will still be taxed on the 5k.

This is the problem with the US tax code when it comes to gambling. Imagine how much worse it will be if they make the w2g amount $600.

I see what you are saying, but the calendar year is made up of gambling sessions. In that example, your gambling session win is $0. You pay no taxes even if you don't deduct losses.

You may have to produce gambling records to prove losses. The reason the $600 threshold is bad is because many gamblers do not keep proper records to prove losses.

Quote: Avincow

I see what you are saying, but the calendar year is made up of gambling sessions. In that example, your gambling session win is $0. You pay no taxes even if you don't deduct losses.

You may have to produce gambling records to prove losses. The reason the $600 threshold is bad is because many gamblers do not keep proper records to prove losses.

But only if you itemize. If you take the standard deduction then you can't write off the loses so you would still pay taxes.

Now if you normally take the standard but have 20k in w2gs thay are all cancelled out then you are still going to pay the taxes up to the standard deduction because you would have normally had that amount anyways.

If you do your taxes with software then try it with your return last year. Keep it as is and see what your return is, then add a 20k w2g and put in a 20k loss and you will see that you would have gotten less of a return.

All if this is moot if you already itemize. If you are already doing that then you will pay 0 taxes if you have loses to cover your wins.

Quote: Avincow

I see what you are saying, but the calendar year is made up of gambling sessions. In that example, your gambling session win is $0. You pay no taxes even if you don't deduct losses.

You may have to produce gambling records to prove losses. The reason the $600 threshold is bad is because many gamblers do not keep proper records to prove losses.

Oh if you have a w2g then you must deduct loses to avoid taxes. Just because your session is 0 doesn't mean you don't have to report.

Technically if you win 30 on one machine then lose 30 on another machine and go home; on your taxes you should claim a 30 gambling win and a 30 gambling loss. You are supposed to record all wins and loses regardless if there is a tax for given.

Quote: GWAE

When it comes to federal taxes your session is the calendar year. So if you win 5k on your first spin and then give it all back in the same day you will still be taxed on the 5k.

This is the problem with the US tax code when it comes to gambling. Imagine how much worse it will be if they make the w2g amount $600.

GWAE,

I don't think this is correct, assuming I understand what you're saying.

To deduct, you must itemize. Your gambling losses can be part of going over the standard deduction threshold.

However, once you are itemizing, your W2g (that has been shown as income on form 1040), will be cancelled out on your schedule A and supplemental sheet showing your gambling losses. You will subtract that for a net gaming of zero (loss claims can't exceed winning amounts - they can only zero you out at best.) So you won't pay taxes on that w2g. It's that easy.

Quote: beachbumbabs

GWAE,

I don't think this is correct, assuming I understand what you're saying.

To deduct, you must itemize. Your gambling losses can be part of going over the standard deduction threshold.

However, once you are itemizing, your W2g (that has been shown as income on form 1040), will be cancelled out on your schedule A and supplemental sheet showing your gambling losses. You will subtract that for a net gaming of zero (loss claims can't exceed winning amounts - they can only zero you out at best.) So you won't pay taxes on that w2g. It's that easy.

That is exactly true if you already itemize. If you dont itemize but your gambling loss now puts you to the point where you itemize then you will lose the benefit of the free standard deduction.

Hire a good tax professional.

One area of confusion on taxes is the person talking about the official legal way to account for gambling, every individual session needs to be tracked and all the positive sessions plus W2gs need to be counted as income and all the losing sessions listed on schedule A or the way that 99.9999999999% of Americans do it and that is to list only the W2gs as income and then use a yearly lose on schedule A.