Neutrino
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April 11th, 2014 at 7:15:38 PM permalink
I have previously asked about "Why do people play X" that do not make sense to me. Well, this time it isn't so much the house edge that's the issue, but rather the way the house edge presents itself.

I know that most people don't view house edge the way I do. Most people don't even have a concept of what house edge is. Having a mathematician telling you "Blackjack has a 0.5% house edge" probably won't even convince most people since they would think, hey, I'm in control, sure I lose a bit but I can double and split and maximize my profit.

It's the way pai gow presents itself that makes me think "Why would anyone play this game". The answers to "because they have no concept of house edge" can't even apply here because it's so intuitive.

First of all, let me state that optimal strategy in pai gow is supposed to be extremely difficult and hence, most people who play pai gow will play the house way or worse. So let's just assume they're playing the house way then...

You're doing the exactly same thing as the dealer. If you push you basically go again (no effect on bankroll, might as well pretend pushes do not exist), if you lose you lose, and if you win dealer takes 10% of your winnings.

I'm sure if you go up to your friends, no matter how dumb they are, and say "hey, want to play a coin flip game? You guess heads or tails. If you're wrong I get your money. If you're right you get my money and then I take 10% from it" they would say "hell no"

Really, how much more intuitive does a game have to be for people to know it's a bad game? I'll emphasize once again you're doing EXACTLY the same thing as the dealer but if you win, you win less. Anyone with a brain can tell this is a bad game.

The overall house edge in pai gow poker isn't that bad, it's just the way it presents itself as an extremely obvious lose-money game makes me wonder why people play this.
sodawater
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April 11th, 2014 at 7:17:29 PM permalink
Because people hope/expect to get dealt better cards than the dealer.
Ibeatyouraces
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April 11th, 2014 at 7:18:09 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Neutrino
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April 11th, 2014 at 7:20:30 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

It's 5%, not 10%



winnings, not pot. if you bet 1:1 you get 1.9 back for win afaik.
sodawater
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April 11th, 2014 at 7:22:36 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

winnings, not pot. if you bet 1:1 you get 1.9 back for win afaik.



If you bet $100 and win you get $95 plus your original $100.
Ibeatyouraces
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April 11th, 2014 at 7:23:07 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Neutrino
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April 11th, 2014 at 7:28:51 PM permalink
I just did a test on bovada. Seems worse than I thought, 25%

http://gyazo.com/ca7a323f0fd2dd767ddf90494fa0fd23
FinsRule
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April 11th, 2014 at 7:28:54 PM permalink
House edge is 2.5% if not banking. Strategy is not that hard to figure out.
FinsRule
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April 11th, 2014 at 7:29:34 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

I just did a test on bovada. Seems worse than I thought, 25%

http://gyazo.com/ca7a323f0fd2dd767ddf90494fa0fd23



Try $5 on Bovada. It'll be 25 cents.
rdw4potus
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April 11th, 2014 at 7:54:19 PM permalink
The commission is very obviously 5%. There's a whole page about the game's rules and strategy on this forum's sister site...

I think most people play because it's a low volatility way to kill time. Most hands are pushes, and it's a slow game. If I play a game with 20 rounds per hour and a 1.8% HE/round and you play a game with 80 rounds per hour and a 0.65% HE/round, which of us is better off?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
DJTeddyBear
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April 11th, 2014 at 8:09:04 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

If I win a $25 bet, the house doesn't take $2.50.

No. They take $1.25 - that's 5%.


Quote: FinsRule

House edge is 2.5% if not banking. Strategy is not that hard to figure out.

Actually, the edge is slightly higher since the banker wins copy hands. Of course, that's why you want to bank - to reduce the edge.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
andysif
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April 11th, 2014 at 8:16:41 PM permalink
LOL.
Someone complaining the "house edge" yet he can't figure out the commission %.
beachbumbabs
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April 11th, 2014 at 8:25:23 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

The commission is very obviously 5%. There's a whole page about the game's rules and strategy on this forum's sister site...

I think most people play because it's a low volatility way to kill time. Most hands are pushes, and it's a slow game. If I play a game with 20 rounds per hour and a 1.8% HE/round and you play a game with 80 rounds per hour and a 0.65% HE/round, which of us is better off?



A lot of people play for one or more of these reasons:

All the cards get dealt out and your hand does not depend on how many other people are playing.

The game has a partially wild Joker that's fun to work with.

You get to set your hands your way, which can take advantage of the House Way, depending on what it is. House Way is almost always designed to NOT LOSE, as opposed to winning. That includes pushes. If you know what they will do (and you should ask), you can sometimes play to WIN and get an advantage.

You can bank after a losing hand to recoup your losses and win ties. Playing head to head, you can bank every other hand some places.

It's a good game for those who like to play a positive progressive. A lot of people like to do this, try for 2 in a row or 3 in a row, doubling each time, then leave.

The Fortune sidebet is a lot of fun IMO. I won't play without it.

It is a slow-moving, social game.

Most places will let you play 2 hands. That can help smooth out rough patches, because 2/3 of the time at least one of your hands will be better than the dealer's (disregarding ties) and can pay for the other.

It's very close to an even-money game, so you tend to lose very slowly in general, but can get ahead fast.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AxelWolf
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April 11th, 2014 at 8:28:33 PM permalink
Quote: andysif

LOL.
Someone complaining the "house edge" yet he can't figure out the commission %.

No he was wondering how people could play something that seems obviously bad and still like to play it. He was really just implying he is a superior human being with an advanced gambling sense.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Ibeatyouraces
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April 11th, 2014 at 8:32:55 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
FinsRule
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April 11th, 2014 at 9:48:30 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

No. They take $1.25 - that's 5%.


Actually, the edge is slightly higher since the banker wins copy hands. Of course, that's why you want to bank - to reduce the edge.



So how high are we talking here? Please show your source.
Face
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April 11th, 2014 at 9:59:16 PM permalink
I like it first and foremost for the impression that I can play defense. I know it only raises the HE, but I don't care. I'm a defender my trade and by heart, and it plays right into that part of my brain that likes to be tickled.

Secondly, as you said, it's slow and tedious. Hands go by slow; mostly it's just pushing or trading the same cheque back and forth. It's not the best game if you want to go home with a lot of money, but it's damn near the best if you just want to sit around and drink free beer all night, which I very much do like. I can go blow $100 at the bar and drink in a dark corner, or I could take that $100, play and have fun with random strangers, still get drunk, and maybe come away with more than -$100. It might not be +EV the way y'all compute it, but that's +EV to me.

And lastly, it's mellow. You never get the serious, or the hard assed. Mostly, it's just a bunch of superstitious Asians, who I never fail to have a good time with. I'm no expert on every game, many I never even played even once. But PGP is absolutely the only game I can play and have fun with, the only game I can tolerate for more than 20 minutes at a time. Too poor for Craps, too not-insane for American roulette, and BJ is worse than Chinese water torture.
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FleaStiff
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April 11th, 2014 at 10:12:28 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

A lot of people play for one or more of these reasons:

All the cards get dealt out and your hand does not depend on how many other people are playing.

The game has a partially wild Joker that's fun to work with.

You get to set your hands your way, which can take advantage of the House Way, depending on what it is. House Way is almost always designed to NOT LOSE, as opposed to winning. That includes pushes. If you know what they will do (and you should ask), you can sometimes play to WIN and get an advantage.

You can bank after a losing hand to recoup your losses and win ties. Playing head to head, you can bank every other hand some places.

It's a good game for those who like to play a positive progressive. A lot of people like to do this, try for 2 in a row or 3 in a row, doubling each time, then leave.

The Fortune sidebet is a lot of fun IMO. I won't play without it.

It is a slow-moving, social game.

Most places will let you play 2 hands. That can help smooth out rough patches, because 2/3 of the time at least one of your hands will be better than the dealer's (disregarding ties) and can pay for the other.

It's very close to an even-money game, so you tend to lose very slowly in general, but can get ahead fast.



Each of these is a good reason and some of these provide an added factor of interest and entertainment as well as potential payout.

As gambling demographics change this is exactly what casinos will need, options from which a variety of like minded people can choose but which allows each of them a good measure of control over the risks and rates involved. Well, perhaps I should say "influence" rather than "control". I recently played Pai Gow Poker and now I plan to go back and do it right. Yeah, initially I was making more money on mindless MiniBacc and that sure is significant of an in itself, but I enjoyed the Pai Gow Poker much more than the "Heads or Tails" aspect of MiniBacc. I won't be Banking at Pai Gow next time, but I'm sure going to be doing progressives on the Fortune Side Bet.
sabre
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April 11th, 2014 at 11:33:36 PM permalink
Quote: Face

I can go blow $100 at the bar and drink in a dark corner, or I could take that $100, play and have fun with random strangers, still get drunk, and maybe come away with more than -$100. It might not be +EV the way y'all compute it, but that's +EV to me.



Bingo.

Craps pass/don't with or without odds is probably slightly better due to a lower house advantage while still having comparable number of decisions per hour. But pai gow poker is certainly more interesting. Plus you get to sit down.
michael99000
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April 11th, 2014 at 11:55:16 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

I have previously asked about "Why do people play X" that do not make sense to me. Well, this time it isn't so much the house edge that's the issue, but rather the way the house edge presents itself.

I know that most people don't view house edge the way I do. Most people don't even have a concept of what house edge is. Having a mathematician telling you "Blackjack has a 0.5% house edge" probably won't even convince most people since they would think, hey, I'm in control, sure I lose a bit but I can double and split and maximize my profit.

It's the way pai gow presents itself that makes me think "Why would anyone play this game". The answers to "because they have no concept of house edge" can't even apply here because it's so intuitive.

First of all, let me state that optimal strategy in pai gow is supposed to be extremely difficult and hence, most people who play pai gow will play the house way or worse. So let's just assume they're playing the house way then...

You're doing the exactly same thing as the dealer. If you push you basically go again (no effect on bankroll, might as well pretend pushes do not exist), if you lose you lose, and if you win dealer takes 10% of your winnings.

I'm sure if you go up to your friends, no matter how dumb they are, and say "hey, want to play a coin flip game? You guess heads or tails. If you're wrong I get your money. If you're right you get my money and then I take 10% from it" they would say "hell no"

Really, how much more intuitive does a game have to be for people to know it's a bad game? I'll emphasize once again you're doing EXACTLY the same thing as the dealer but if you win, you win less. Anyone with a brain can tell this is a bad game.

The overall house edge in pai gow poker isn't that bad, it's just the way it presents itself as an extremely obvious lose-money game makes me wonder why people play this.


Another thread you started was about your not understanding why people develop gambling addictions. Now you don't get why people play Pai Gow.

Whets next? A thread expressing shock that people drive over the speed limit... A thread about how your amazed that people eat so many cookies...

Also, it's usually a good idea to understand the rules of a game before devoting an entire thread to your disdain for it,
gts4ever
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April 12th, 2014 at 12:08:47 AM permalink
because it's fun?
RS
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April 12th, 2014 at 3:34:29 AM permalink
IMO, it's one hell of a boring game. All you do is push (or so it seems). Whenever you lose, it totally sucks because it's almost always a push. And once you finally win a damn hand, it sucks as well because you're winning 95% of your original bet. Then again, I prefer games that are beatable....or at least fun to play!
Scan
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April 12th, 2014 at 4:46:18 AM permalink
I find it is a nice break after standing and playing craps.

It is one of my favorite games
odiousgambit
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April 12th, 2014 at 5:44:40 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

The Fortune sidebet is a lot of fun IMO. I won't play without it.



Seriously, I think moderators who have opinions differing so markedly from that of the Wizard should give a cheerful disclaimer *each* time.

Is there anything else Michael says more firmly and repeatedly than "never bet the side bets" ?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
rdw4potus
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April 12th, 2014 at 5:52:50 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

So how high are we talking here? Please show your source.



2.7212%
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
TheBigPaybak
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April 12th, 2014 at 6:08:40 AM permalink
It can actually be somewhat engaging, especially when dealing with certain "borderline" hands against specific house-ways. Yes, yes, I know what some of you are thinking, and while maybe you're technically right, although it does provide some variety to the game and regardless, you do need to exercise your brain a bit.

And at least in Detroit, they offer a $5 progressive bet which is almost always technically a player-advantage bet, many times with "life-changing" money. How many times can you say that with a side-bet?
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
Face
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Face
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April 12th, 2014 at 6:40:04 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Seriously, I think moderators who have opinions differing so markedly from that of the Wizard should give a cheerful disclaimer *each* time.

Is there anything else Michael says more firmly and repeatedly than "never bet the side bets" ?



Quote: beachbumbabs

The Fortune sidebet is a lot of fun IMO.



Wiz champions the way to play financially smart. Babs offered her opinion on entertainment. I didn't see it as a contradiction.

You have made me wonder, though, whether the green automatically implies some sort of authority beyond enforcing the rules. Because I, personally, find value in other things besides the bottom line, as expressed in my reasons I play Pai Gow. I like to remind people of said value. But of course, my type of value also doesn't always align with Wiz's mantra. I'd hope most can read for content and understand what I'm trying to say.

I'd also like to remind that my "authority" extends no further than enforcing our simple rules. My math is at about the 9th grade level, and I'd not want anyone to read more into a post of mine than what it is lol =p
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
odiousgambit
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April 12th, 2014 at 6:50:17 AM permalink
Quote: Face

You have made me wonder, though, whether the green automatically implies some sort of authority beyond enforcing the rules.



If you are wondering, what does that say? It could to some person. But I personally just feel it is a tiny bit of a slap in the Wizardly face. A tiny one. A disclaimer would be fine.

What would you think of a volunteer for some organization who sometimes let it slip that some of that outfit's practices were BS?

Quote:

my type of value also doesn't always align with Wiz's mantra. I'd hope most can read for content and understand what I'm trying to say.



sounds like a disclaimer! Perfectly acceptable.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Face
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Face
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April 12th, 2014 at 6:55:33 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

If you are wondering, what does that say? It could to some person. But I personally just feel it is a tiny bit of a slap in the Wizardly face. A tiny one. A disclaimer would be fine.

What would you think of a volunteer for some organization who sometimes let it slip that some of that outfit's practices were BS?



sounds like a disclaimer! Perfectly acceptable.



Almost four years with the same sig. You've given me reason to change it. Crisis averted ;)
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Mosca
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April 12th, 2014 at 7:43:22 AM permalink
Quote: Face

... Hands go by slow; mostly it's just pushing or trading the same cheque back and forth. It's not the best game if you want to go home with a lot of money, but it's damn near the best if you just want to sit around and drink free beer all night, which I very much do like. I can go blow $100 at the bar and drink in a dark corner, or I could take that $100, play and have fun with random strangers, still get drunk, and maybe come away with more than -$100. It might not be +EV the way y'all compute it, but that's +EV to me.

And lastly, it's mellow. You never get the serious, or the hard assed. Mostly, it's just a bunch of superstitious Asians, who I never fail to have a good time with....



These.

I play pai gow poker when it's 4PM, I'm up or down a few hundred and dinner is at 6. I want to kill time without much chance of changing my bankroll status.

And I too enjoy playing with the type of people who play PGP. It's usually a fun, sociable table.
A falling knife has no handle.
DJTeddyBear
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April 12th, 2014 at 7:46:20 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Actually, the edge is slightly higher since the banker wins copy hands. Of course, that's why you want to bank - to reduce the edge.

So how high are we talking here? Please show your source.


Edge when using the House Way:
2.7212% when the dealer is banker.
0.2540% when the player is banker.
Source: https://wizardofodds.com/games/pai-gow-poker/

For the record, I didn't realize the difference was so huge, until I looked it up to answer this question.

I'll be sure to always bank whenever I can.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
FinsRule
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April 12th, 2014 at 8:27:16 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Edge when using the House Way:
2.7212% when the dealer is banker.
0.2540% when the player is banker.
Source: https://wizardofodds.com/games/pai-gow-poker/

For the record, I didn't realize the difference was so huge, until I looked it up to answer this question.

I'll be sure to always bank whenever I can.



If you are using decent setting strategy, doesn't that knock it down to 2.5x? Or am I just thinking about Dan's version?
beachbumbabs
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April 12th, 2014 at 8:32:44 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Seriously, I think moderators who have opinions differing so markedly from that of the Wizard should give a cheerful disclaimer *each* time.

Is there anything else Michael says more firmly and repeatedly than "never bet the side bets" ?



Hmmm..."There is no winning system", perhaps? lol...

The Wiz is also an advocate of free speech. I'm happy to support him. But I didn't have to take a lockstep gambling test before he asked me to do this, either.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
FinsRule
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April 12th, 2014 at 9:10:12 AM permalink
Actually on the Woo page, mike wrote that if you feel like you get 39 cents worth of happiness, then he is fine with you making the side bet.
DJTeddyBear
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April 12th, 2014 at 9:21:09 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

If you are using decent setting strategy, doesn't that knock it down to 2.5x? Or am I just thinking about Dan's version?

Yeah. That's why I specified "House Way". I.E. If you set your hand the house way, per that WoO page, those are the edges.

The same pages says if you use optimal strategy, the edges get knocked down to 2.5122% and almost zero for banking: 0.0442%


I just realized I never answered the original question: Why people play it.

Other than the obvious, "They like it", about half the hands push which makes it a nice slow paced game.

Of course, if you want a slower paced game, learn Pai Gow tiles. The mixing, stacking and dealing the tiles is somewhat time consuming.

Then for something even slower: Pai Gow Poker at Circus Circus. I don't know if it's still there, but I played there with Pai Gow Dan a couple years ago - on a table that didn't use a shuffling machine. The deal procedure was so crazy and convoluted, and time consuming, that it felt like we got maybe two hands every five minutes.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
odiousgambit
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April 12th, 2014 at 9:41:11 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

The Wiz is also an advocate of free speech.



Actually I am glad you are free to say what you want to say, otherwise your post would have been less interesting, so don't misunderstand.

suggestions below for something like "The Fortune sidebet is a lot of fun IMO. I won't play without it."

Although the HE is way beyond Wizard's approval, The Fortune sidebet is a lot of fun IMO. I won't play without it.
In spite of there being no Wizard Imprimatur on any sidebet, The Fortune sidebet is a lot of fun IMO. I won't play without it.

I promise not to belabor it any further.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
chrisr
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April 12th, 2014 at 4:57:09 PM permalink
i'm personally not a fan of pai-gow because due the high house edge and low standard deviation there isn't much chance for the player to win the game..

that is you will lose a relatively predictable amount compared to other games. for example in 10 hours of play the middle 50% of players are within the interval [-16,0] units.
FleaStiff
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April 12th, 2014 at 5:13:47 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

And I too enjoy playing with the type of people who play PGP. It's usually a fun, sociable table.

That's nice. l've been at a few BlackJack tables where I felt the guy next to me telling me to Double was about to add " or else " to his instructions.
Lemieux66
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April 12th, 2014 at 5:22:07 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

That's nice. l've been at a few BlackJack tables where I felt the guy next to me telling me to Double was about to add " or else " to his instructions.



He wants you to win!
10 eyes for an eye. 10 teeth for a tooth. 10 bucks for a buck?! Hit the bad guys where it hurts the most: the face and the wallet.
AxiomOfChoice
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April 14th, 2014 at 3:49:38 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

If you bet $100 and win you get $95 plus your original $100.



And if you bet $105 and win you get $100 plus your original $105.

But, yeah, if you don't bank, PGP is a suckers game. The edge is just too high.
sodawater
sodawater
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April 14th, 2014 at 4:10:03 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

And if you bet $105 and win you get $100 plus your original $105.



Not where I play.
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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April 14th, 2014 at 4:13:25 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

Not where I play.



That's incredibly cheap of them; it's been a courtesy play everywhere I've been. We're talking about 25 cents. Geez.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
RS
RS
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April 14th, 2014 at 4:20:50 PM permalink
Vig for $105 wager is $6, right?
sodawater
sodawater
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April 14th, 2014 at 4:26:43 PM permalink
Quote: RS

Vig for $105 wager is $6, right?



In NJ, if you bet $105 and win they pay $99.75. So commission is $5.25. They need their quarter.
terapined
terapined
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April 14th, 2014 at 4:36:06 PM permalink
I love Pai Gow Poker.
I just recently got into it due to JB's strategy on the Wiz's odds site.
I am well aware I have a big disadvantage at 5 per cent comm. If the fortune bet is just a buck, I bet that also and the casino edge is more then 5 per cent on that bet.
I look at odds very closely, In Vegas, I only play 99.54% and above Video Poker.
I play dark side craps and simply make A don't bet. House has slim odds.
Poker tournament or cash, small rake and playing against others with varying skill so overall its probably a break even game for me.

Overall all, Pai Gow has the worst odds but to me is the most fun.

Video Poker is interesting but after say 50 or 100 hands, my eyes glaze over and I need a break.
Craps is fun but sometimes gets a little boring because I simply play the dark side. 1 bet and I simply watch the dice over and over.
Poker, tournament or cash. I used to play a lot but I am a very tight player so therefore don't get involved in a lot of hands which can get boring.

Pai Gow Poker, even with the commission, is the most fun for me.
You get 7 cards, most times its easy to set a hand, but sometimes you have to think. That's what I love. I actually play with a small index card with a shortened version of JB's strategy from the Wiz's odds site.
Its slow so my money does not drain fast, which I like. So slow that I try to get the seat on the left. With a right side seat, sometimes I forget what I have by the time the dealer turns over my cards.
Its fun socially. I've had rookies sit next to me and I help set their hands. At the Vegas Flamingo a few weeks ago, I got a really interesting hand with a joker that could be played several ways. It was fun because The dealer was curious about my hesitation so I showed her the hand. She said to play it one way then the pit boss looked over and said no and gave me another way to play it. Its really neat that now the pit boss is giving me advice to help me.
Sometimes a player will show everybody their hand to get help and then a discussion starts between players and dealer on the best way to play.
Its fun because players tend to win and lose as a group to the dealer. A lot of friendly chatter when the dealer has nothing.
I love the Fortune bet if its only a dollar. It makes the game funs because you can hit a longshot.

Too me, gambling is about fun. I always play with an amount I am willing and can afford to lose.
bw
bw
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April 14th, 2014 at 5:00:28 PM permalink
Agree with above post 100%, I love the game. Can play for hours on end and usually win a few hundred or will be down a few hundred. But free food, free drinks, free room. Great deal.
FatGeezus
FatGeezus
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April 15th, 2014 at 6:03:49 PM permalink
I love playing PGP. Today I played 2 sessions. I won one and I lost one.

I never play the side bets. In my first session today, the young guy next to me was losing and said to me, " I have to hit one of these side bets." I told him it was a sucker bet. I explained it to him this way.

The game was designed for the casino to have the edge. I asked him "do you think that they added the side bet so that you could win more money or did they add the side bet so they can take more of your money?" He said "I know it's a sucker bet, but I would hate to get a straight flush and not have money on the side bet." I knew I couldn't get him to change his thinking on the side bet, so I kept quiet.

After he lost his original bankroll, he went into his pocket for more money. Some people just never learn.
Mikey75
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April 17th, 2014 at 3:14:48 PM permalink
I've never played PGP but I think on my next trip I'm going to try it. I've been studying the strategy and playing the wizards game. It's defiantly on my play list for my next trip.
FinsRule
FinsRule
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April 17th, 2014 at 3:19:31 PM permalink
Quote: FatGeezus

I love playing PGP. Today I played 2 sessions. I won one and I lost one.

I never play the side bets. In my first session today, the young guy next to me was losing and said to me, " I have to hit one of these side bets." I told him it was a sucker bet. I explained it to him this way.

The game was designed for the casino to have the edge. I asked him "do you think that they added the side bet so that you could win more money or did they add the side bet so they can take more of your money?" He said "I know it's a sucker bet, but I would hate to get a straight flush and not have money on the side bet." I knew I couldn't get him to change his thinking on the side bet, so I kept quiet.

After he lost his original bankroll, he went into his pocket for more money. Some people just never learn.



I don't quite understand. He said he knew it was a sucker bet, but he wanted to play it because of the chance of hitting a big score. What didn't he learn?

In terms of sucker bets, there's a lot worse also.
terapined
terapined
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April 17th, 2014 at 3:58:29 PM permalink
The fortune bet is a sucker bet but I still do it.
Its about fun and its only a buck.
Say I lose 20 fortune bets in a row, lose a whole 20, big deal.
I simply play it for the fun factor.
At CET properties, the fortune bet is minimum 5 bucks. No way I'm making that bet.

I actually play live keno sometimes. I know its a terrible bet but I'm in Vegas for fun, a 1 dollar bet is about fun . I typically stay at the 4 Queens and bet sports at their small William Hill Sports book. Live keno just a few steps away, sometimes I'll make a 1 buck bet during timeouts and halftimes.
Sometimes its about having fun instead of odds.
No way I'm dumping real money into a sucker bet, but a buck here or there, why not have a little fun.
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