I can not empathize with people with gambling problems...
I can't empathize with people with gambling problems. The concept of a "gambling problem" seems as mentally foreign to me as suicide bombers or shit fetish. I just don't register it. I just don't register what in a person makes them behave that way.
I'm AP. Often people with gambling problems play games that are -EV without comps. Sometimes it's extremely -EV, such as a self-banned gambler entering a casino, if he hits the jackpot it gets confiscated. Often, it's slots, the one thing that AP would never play without significant bonus/comps. I just don't get how someone could play a -EV game, AND get emotional over losing money. Isn't the whole point of a -EV game is for you to lose money? What did you expect.
I guess the closest thing I can experience to gambling problems is tilt. But even tilt is pretty far from gambling problems, and through better understanding of variance and distribution I quite rarely tilt anymore. Really, I just don't understand... I don't understand why people play slots to begin with, but much more than that I don't understand why people throw away all their life savings at it.
Do they not know even a 50/50 bet is always bad? The bigger the bet, even with 0EV 50/50, the bigger the problem. That is because of utility value. The money at the bottom of your bankroll is your food money and necessity money. The money higher up are luxury money. Even if they are numerically the same, their utility value is not the same.
The only thing I could think about is that they are playing for fun. But, how is losing all your money fun? For the same money you could do so much other fun things. If they think the game is actually fun, why don't they play simulation/practice games then? Let alone, in my opinion, spinning a slot wheel is as fun as flipping a coin. Anything with no input, there's no way possible I can find it fun. For $20 you can probably buy any fun video game you want, and the game would last forever. Why would anyone spend so much money to play for fun here?
So, can someone show me the light? Help me understand and empathize with these people.
Quote: NeutrinoHelp me understand and empathize with these retarded people.
Maybe some people are not as perfect as you.
Quote: WizardMaybe some people are not as perfect as you.
compliment or sarcasm?
Quote: NeutrinoHelp me understand and empathize with these retarded people.
Wow, what a vainglorious post. I don't 'get'
why you posted it, what's your point.
Vainglorious: excessive elation or pride over one's own achievements, abilities, etc.; boastful vanity,
often at the expense of others.
Sympathy might be able to be achieved by understanding how addiction works.
It has nothing to do with intelligence, by the way. I know some extremely intelligent addicts. High-functioning alcoholics, for example. There are many highly-skilled individuals who excel in high-paying jobs, despite that fact that they are drunk all the time.
Quote: Neutrinocompliment or sarcasm?
Obviously a compliment, one rarely see's perfection.
Quote: EvenBobWow, what a vainglorious post. I don't 'get'
why you posted it, what's your point.
Vainglorious: excessive elation or pride over one's own achievements, abilities, etc.; boastful vanity,
often at the expense of others.
gee sorry, i deleted the word now
*That was from an old study I read in the WSJ. Of course, with a casino every 20 miles today that may no longer be true. You used to have to make an effort at being a compulsive gambler.
Casino gambling is selling hope for a profit. That can be an irresistible offer for those who don't have much to hope for. Guess the right number on the roulette wheel and turn $100 into $3200! Bet $100 and roll snake eyes and you get $3000! Just a penny and a lucky spin could get you $10000! Now you have people that think, if I could just get a little lucky and win $1000, my life would be so much better. Of course, instead they lose $1000 and think well, my luck is bound to turn now I'll win it back! Suddenly they are down $10000 and that similar but much more dire thought is, I can't pay my mortgage now my only way out of this jam is if i hit this $10000 jackpot. Gambling is the addiction that tricks its addicts with the belief that it can cure itself with a little luck. I'm sure most of the addicts have themselves convinced that they'll quit once they hit the big one and get square with the world. But of course we know that most of them even if they hit that big one, will get ensnared by the same promise of hope that led them down that path to begin with.
You gamble because you can tilt the odds in your favor, but most others play with the hope they can defy the odds long enough to walk out with more than they came in with. Some get caught up in that hope and don't stop when they should.
Actually, the addict I have the most sympathy for is the compulsive over-eater: the 400 lb guy who knows intellectually that he's headed for heart attack, diabetes, & stroke, but it doesn't matter; he's got a dangerously insatiable craving for sugar, fat, meat, and chocolate. The recovering cocaine addict can easily avoid TV commercials for cocaine, the recovering heroin addict can usually avoid social parties (weddings, birthdays, holidays) where heroin is served, and the cigarette smoker can (theoretically) quit cold turkey. But the compulsive over-eater on a diet? Forget it. He's subjected to TV commercials for fast food, he's got to avoid all parties & holidays with food, and he doesn't have the luxury of quitting cold turkey like a cigarette smoker. The 400 lb guy can't hide his addiction like a gambling addict can. Society tells him he's fat, lazy, unsexy, and glutinous. Walking is difficult. His knees, ankles, and feet are constantly in pain. Shopping for clothes is embarrassing. And his sleep apnea prevents him from getting a decent night sleep. He's battling low self-esteem, exhaustion, depression, loneliness, and impotence. And the best cure for all this pain? French fries.
But why do they continue? I think that its for the chemicals released from the brain (endorphin like chemicals) along with the adrenalin that gives people the "rush".
Its like an internal drug that gives you a "rush" rather than an external drug like cocaine.
People in trouble seek this "rush" crave that "rush"...but often cant put their finger on it. Their body craves it although their mind may not rationally realize what it craves.
why do some people go overboard? become addicted? We had a thread on this. Its very individual. I for instance am not addicted. Why? Because I have gambled mostly 2 days a week every week for 30 years. A couple years ago I was between jobs and I stopped gambling for a few months because I didnt feel it was right to use family money for gambling if I wasnt bringing anything in. For 3 monts or so I did other things. I did not get withrawl symptons, I did not get insomnia, tremors, change eating habits(eat more to compensate)....nothing like that. However can another person with a different chemical makeup than me be addicted from 30 years of gambling every week for 30 years?.....So who knows what creates that difference. Its not cut and dry.
Some people are more prone to addiction than others.
Just like some peopel can smoke a pack of cigarettes daily and get cancer in their 40's and someone else can smoke 2 packs a day for 60 ytears till they die in a car accident
If you know what it is to go "on tilt", then chances are you have an addictive personality. After all, "going on tilt" involves, against all rational thought and good gambling habits, chasing your losses with good money, hoping you can recover, usually without success (AND YOU KNOW IT), but trying again anyway. So I think most of your initial post is about you, not those you're looking down on from on high. Becoming an AP was a way for you to function while servicing your addiction. The power gambling had over you was transformed into your secret power over the casinos, learning how to work the games to your advantage, likely while doing things like hiding your identity or face, moving fast from place to place, all the tricks that depersonalize you. Is every AP an addict? No. Are you? Seems likely. But you're making it work for you. So if you were to have some self-respect for your workaround solution and yourself, that would be the first step in empathizing with other people who haven't coped so well. All IMHO. YMMV.
Quote: beachbumbabsNeutrino,
If you know what it is to go "on tilt", then chances are you have an addictive personality. After all, "going on tilt" involves, against all rational thought and good gambling habits, chasing your losses with good money, hoping you can recover, usually without success (AND YOU KNOW IT), but trying again anyway. So I think most of your initial post is about you, not those you're looking down on from on high. Becoming an AP was a way for you to function while servicing your addiction. The power gambling had over you was transformed into your secret power over the casinos, learning how to work the games to your advantage, likely while doing things like hiding your identity or face, moving fast from place to place, all the tricks that depersonalize you. Is every AP an addict? No. Are you? Seems likely. But you're making it work for you. So if you were to have some self-respect for your workaround solution and yourself, that would be the first step in empathizing with other people who haven't coped so well. All IMHO. YMMV.
going on "tilt" is not always an indicatin of addiction. I could drive to reno once a year and play poker, and go on tilt each time. In this extreme case going on tilt is more a fuction of lack of discipline and or lack of patience.
An impatient person can go on tilt every time they gamble and never be an addict
Quote: beachbumbabsNeutrino,
If you know what it is to go "on tilt", then chances are you have an addictive personality. After all, "going on tilt" involves, against all rational thought and good gambling habits, chasing your losses with good money, hoping you can recover, usually without success (AND YOU KNOW IT), but trying again anyway. So I think most of your initial post is about you, not those you're looking down on from on high. Becoming an AP was a way for you to function while servicing your addiction. The power gambling had over you was transformed into your secret power over the casinos, learning how to work the games to your advantage, likely while doing things like hiding your identity or face, moving fast from place to place, all the tricks that depersonalize you. Is every AP an addict? No. Are you? Seems likely. But you're making it work for you. So if you were to have some self-respect for your workaround solution and yourself, that would be the first step in empathizing with other people who haven't coped so well. All IMHO. YMMV.
Interesting analysis. I would say I disagree. But anyway, one interesting question for you:
The way I see tilt functioning is that there's a hand you're supposed to win, for example AA vs 27, and you lost it. Such trigger is not present in the case of average gamblers. If you lose something that is +EV, anger or tilt is something that I could understand. But if you lose something -EV, well, why are you angry? Isn't that what's supposed to happen? Sure I used to go on tilt when I lose AA vs 27, but I never in my life went on tilt if I lost 27 vs AA. People with slots addiction are like people who tilt over 27 losing to AA.
So do you still see as much parallel with my tilt vs general gambling problem?
Quote: NeutrinoInteresting analysis. I would say I disagree. But anyway, one interesting question for you:
The way I see tilt functioning is that there's a hand you're supposed to win, for example AA vs 27, and you lost it. Such trigger is not present in the case of average gamblers. If you lose something that is +EV, anger or tilt is something that I could understand. But if you lose something -EV, well, why are you angry? Isn't that what's supposed to happen? Sure I used to go on tilt when I lose AA vs 27, but I never in my life went on tilt if I lost 27 vs AA. People with slots addiction are like people who tilt over 27 losing to AA.
So do you still see as much parallel with my tilt vs general gambling problem?
You know full well that just because you are in a +EV situation that there's still an extremely good chance you will still lose. The shlum next to you that's in 5 grand too deep is also upset that his 20 got blown up by the dealer getting a 5 on their 16. That was a +EV situation for addicted gambler too, and just like when you go on tilt, they pulled out some more hundreds from their wallet because there is no way in a fair and just world that you can lose a +EV hand without getting some makeup karma on the other side, right?
Going on tilt is a form of gambling addiction. Not all gambling addicts are those who sprint to a casino the minute they have 2 pennies to rub together. The person who travels to Las Vegas with the intent of only gambling with $2,000 but leaves down $30,000 is certainly a gambling addict. Just like the alcoholic that that functions just fine as long they haven't had a drink, but as soon as they have a sip they are suddenly charging though bottles of liquor.
Just as you have, I have identified that I can have the weakness of going 'on tilt' and have taken steps to prevent it. Just as you take steps to calm yourself down after an expected win turns into a loss, I make sure I keep my debit cards at home so I'm not tempted to go to the ATM after a run of bad luck destroys my bank roll. You can try and distance yourself from those who compulsively gamble, but really the only difference between them and frequent gamblers like you and I is that we recognized it early and have taken appropriate steps to prevent our gambling habit from being destructive.
Everybody needs a fix. And society changed about what is acceptable and what is not. 50 years ago drunk driving was not a big thing. But, betting on the numbers or collecting from those who did. OMG. what an evil person that made you.
Don King, boxing promoter, got a justifiable homicide plea for shooting in the back a man who had robbed one of his gambling joints.
He later stomped to death an employee who owed him $600. King served 4 years, then Jessie Jackson and the usual gang got him pardoned by the Governor.
Yet when started to go big time in boxing, the papers always wrote than he was a number runner. And think of the poor welfare mothers betting 50 cents on a number instead of buying milk for their babies.
Now the state runs the numbers and it is all so wonderful. The state pays 500-1 for a straight hit. Don King paid 700.
Looks to me like the government has an addiction
Quote: Neutrino
The way I see tilt functioning is that there's a hand you're supposed to win, for example AA vs 27, and you lost it. Such trigger is not present in the case of average gamblers.
Completely disagree. You are making the mistake of thinking that just because your AP that you're smarter than a normal gambler, and you aren't. Everyone.. APs, recreational players, newbies.. knows that they are supposed to win AA vs 27, And they are on tilt after losing that hand for the exact same reason you are, because they know they were supposed to win.
Any slightly above average and up blackjack player for the most part knows what hands they were supposed to win and lose after the initial cards are dealt, with the exception of those which fall near the 50/50 line. When a non counter is dealt 16 against a 10 he knows he's not "supposed" to win that hand
And you show me any poker player of any level whose pissed when he loses 27 vs AA. You are trying to build a bigger gap between your tilt and the average gamblers tilt then there really is.
These people are just the same as you and me, just that winning feels a little better to them. A lot of it is genetic predisposition. A lot of it is the way they were raised and early childhood experiences. It could be you, whether you believe it or not. Life is mostly luck. If that doesn't make you feel sorry for them, then at least realize how lucky you are. Only a fool believes his circumstances are totally his own doing.
Just out of curiosity, what do you normally play, and how successful are you? I've noticed that most of the people who feel this way and gamble for a living often grind out midstakes poker/mid limit blackjack, and they don't feel empathy because it's masked by the resentment of watching others get lucky and feeling like they never get their turn. If you don't understand human nature, you will have a very hard time being a high level AP. Let the negative emotions go, and watch your judgement and success improve dramatically.
Quote: BuzzardLike most threads about addiction, people think first of alcohol and gambling. We all have addictions. The lucky among us do not have destructive addictions. As A Chief Shop Steward at AT&T I have seen careers , lives, families destroyed by all sorts of addictions. Drugs, alcohol, and gambling are in the forefront. But closely behind are religion, sex, theft, and who knows what else.
Everybody needs a fix. And society changed about what is acceptable and what is not. 50 years ago drunk driving was not a big thing. But, betting on the numbers or collecting from those who did. OMG. what an evil person that made you.
Don King, boxing promoter, got a justifiable homicide plea for shooting in the back a man who had robbed one of his gambling joints.
He later stomped to death an employee who owed him $600. King served 4 years, then Jessie Jackson and the usual gang got him pardoned by the Governor.
Yet when started to go big time in boxing, the papers always wrote than he was a number runner. And think of the poor welfare mothers betting 50 cents on a number instead of buying milk for their babies.
Now the state runs the numbers and it is all so wonderful. The state pays 500-1 for a straight hit. Don King paid 700.
Looks to me like the government has an addiction
Alot of people like you throw around the word "addict"
I am a "wheel of fortune addict"
I am a country music "addict"
I am a pizza "addict"
I am a nfl "addict"
its a nice over the top description of your favorite activities.......but not an addiction
Kind of minimizes the plight of the really sick people, the real addicts.
addictions are accompanied by servere side effects the the addicting substance is withheald...tremors, sleeplessness,inability to concentrate, eating disorders, clinical depression....USUALLY MORE THAN 1 OF THE ABOVE
Its like saying to an alcoholic...you think you got it bad......YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN ME WHEN THE "Love Boat" WENT OFF THE AIR
personally I only have a doctorate in pharmacy so I am not qualified to make a diagnosis. But even if I was accreditied and certified as an expert to make this type of diagnosis.....I wouldnt make it over the internet with a paragraph of information/evidence.
But thats just me
Quote: LarrySAlot of people like you throw around the word "addict"
I am a "wheel of fortune addict"
I am a country music "addict"
I am a pizza "addict"
I am a nfl "addict"
its a nice over the top description of your favorite activities.......but not an addiction
Kind of minimizes the plight of the really sick people, the real addicts.
addictions are accompanied by servere side effects the the addicting substance is withheald...tremors, sleeplessness,inability to concentrate, eating disorders, clinical depression....USUALLY MORE THAN 1 OF THE ABOVE
Its like saying to an alcoholic...you think you got it bad......YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN ME WHEN THE "Love Boat" WENT OFF THE AIR
personally I only have a doctorate in pharmacy so I am not qualified to make a diagnosis. But even if I was accreditied and certified as an expert to make this type of diagnosis.....I wouldnt make it over the internet with a paragraph of information/evidence.
But thats just me
So you're saying you can't be addicted to something unless it's bad for you?
Quote: Neutrino
How long have you been an AP?
Is it your main source of income?
How often to you play?
My dad would say the same thing about video games being a complete wast of money. Video games cam be very addictive. So can working out or just about anything.
have you ever drank alcohol? I see no diffidence in -ev gambling play and drinking. Id rather deal with an addicted gambler then a alcoholic. drinking is far more destructive then drinking.
Most people have their poison I have found tho's who don't are usually very dry, boring, depressed grouchy people.
I know tons of AP's, VERY successful ones, who will mess around with slots for "fun" or other games, this does not mean they are degenerates nor do the have a gambling problems. Let e be clear im not talking about blowing thousands of dollars. That would be dumb. If a guy has a half a million dollar bank roll and he wants to toss a few hundred to play some slot or new VP game, Who are you or anyone else to judge "Fun and Entertainment" Addiction seems to be situational depending on what you are exposed to. patents and background. All this stuff is made to be addictive. The best of the best people get addicted to things.
I have compared slot "fun" play to playing a video game ,pool, darts. You may be able to buy a video game for 20 bucks but how often can you get lucky and win feel and feel happy when you buy a Video game? believe it or not some people gamble reasonably. If your an AP a little slot play for experimental reasons or even cover play is not the worst idea in the world.
didn't see this post till i posted mine. I seems to have some of the same type questions for him you did.Quote: tongniHave you ever played in a marginal game because you were down money? Kept playing poker once the fish quits even though you wouldn't sit in that game to begin with? That's the compulsion of gambling. Winning is fun, whether the gamble was positive or negative expectation. Assuming that the stakes are high enough, it's really quite similar to cocaine, brain chemistry wise. Some people are always chasing that high, not even caring if they end up with money in their pocket. If success is measured by happiness, and these people are in bliss for a few moments while you look on in disgust before turning your head back to grinding out your 3% edge, then who is really the fool?
These people are just the same as you and me, just that winning feels a little better to them. A lot of it is genetic predisposition. A lot of it is the way they were raised and early childhood experiences. It could be you, whether you believe it or not. Life is mostly luck. If that doesn't make you feel sorry for them, then at least realize how lucky you are. Only a fool believes his circumstances are totally his own doing.
Just out of curiosity, what do you normally play, and how successful are you? I've noticed that most of the people who feel this way and gamble for a living often grind out midstakes poker/mid limit blackjack, and they don't feel empathy because it's masked by the resentment of watching others get lucky and feeling like they never get their turn. If you don't understand human nature, you will have a very hard time being a high level AP. Let the negative emotions go, and watch your judgement and success improve dramatically.
Anyways, where is that 3% edge your talking about :) I consider less than 2% a grind
Quote: AxelWolfHow long have you been an AP?
Is it your main source of income?
How often to you play?
My dad would say the same thing about video games being a complete wast of money. Video games cam be very addictive. So can working out or just about anything.
have you ever drank alcohol? I see no diffidence in -ev gambling play and drinking. Id rather deal with an addicted gambler then a alcoholic. drinking is far more destructive then drinking.
Most people have their poison I have found tho's who don't are usually very dry, boring, depressed grouchy people.
I know tons of AP's, VERY successful ones, who will mess around with slots for "fun" or other games, this does not mean they are degenerates nor do the have a gambling problems. Let e be clear im not talking about blowing thousands of dollars. That would be dumb. If a guy has a half a million dollar bank roll and he wants to toss a few hundred to play some slot or new VP game, Who are you or anyone else to judge "Fun and Entertainment" Addiction seems to be situational depending on what you are exposed to. patents and background. All this stuff is made to be addictive. The best of the best people get addicted to things.
I have compared slot "fun" play to playing a video game ,pool, darts. You may be able to buy a video game for 20 bucks but how often can you get lucky and win feel and feel happy when you buy a Video game? believe it or not some people gamble reasonably. If your an AP a little slot play for experimental reasons or even cover play is not the worst idea in the world.
Well said.
And keep in kind the OP is the same guy who a month ago started a thread dedicated to explaining why it's ok to use the martingale system to impress girls. So I'll just say I found his reference to "retards" .... Ironic
Waite a minute hes an AP? and he is in favor of Martingale? Hmmm ...he's got some splainin to do!Quote: michael99000Well said.
And keep in kind the OP is the same guy who a month ago started a thread dedicated to explaining why it's ok to use the martingale system to impress girls. So I'll just say I found his reference to "retards" .... Ironic
Im all in favor of impressing hot chicks with gambling.
I thought he was just using martingale as an excuse to feel good about using a bad system in order to justify it. I would think counting cards might be far more impressive. Because once his co workers,boss or whoever losses a big bet and can't continue eventually they will run across WoV they will find out the truth. He may have to find a new job. Then again there is always that book "Martingale for winners". If that's not a real book I got dibs on the name.
Quote: AxelWolf
Im all in favor of impressing hot chicks with gambling.
.
Me too.
I just dont think martingale works best for that either though. The one thing I don't need after sitting down to gamble with a girl is to be cleaned out after 10 minutes.
"Watch Hun, this is the hand where I bet 4840 to get us back to plus 15"
and then get 8,8 vs dealers 7Quote: michael99000Me too.
I just dont think martingale works best for that either though. The one thing I don't need after sitting down to gamble with a girl is to be cleaned out after 10 minutes.
"Watch Hun, this is the hand where I bet 4840 to get us back to plus 15"
Quote: Neutrino
I can't empathize with people with gambling problems. The concept of a "gambling problem" seems as mentally foreign to me as suicide bombers or shit fetish. I just don't register it. I just don't register what in a person makes them behave that way.
So let's examine what casino gambling involves. You are sitting down playing a game, while scantily clad hot women are continuously feeding you free drinks, your an elevator ride from the (most likely) free room you'll be sleeping in, and on occasion you leave with more money than you came with...
Yet no matter how hard you try, you cannot understand how anyone could possibly become addicted to this lifestyle.
The escape is what's addicting. The escape from the everyday real world for most people. A world where the only way to gain money is through working, and nothing is free. The monetary losses are quickly forgotten for an addict, but they never forget how they felt when they were in the casino.
Quote: michael99000So let's examine what casino gambling involves. You are sitting down playing a game, while scantily clad hot women are continuously feeding you free drinks, your an elevator ride from the (most likely) free room you'll be sleeping in, and on occasion you leave with more money than you came with...
Yet no matter how hard you try, you cannot understand how anyone could possibly become addicted to this lifestyle.
The escape is what's addicting. The escape from the everyday real world for most people. A world where the only way to gain money is through working, and nothing is free. The monetary losses are quickly forgotten for an addict, but they never forget how they felt when they were in the casino.
Very true. Power and control, or at least the illusion of both, are available at the tables, even at the slots.
If something is constantly on your mind, like you are preoccupied, there's likely a problem, over a long period of time. (ie: If your cat just died and that's all you can think about for a week....not a problem. But if you're always looking forward to the weekend because you'll get blacked out drunk....problem.) There's a high just thinking about it, where you create scenarios in your head, like splitting 8's to four hands, doubling all four of them, then the dealer busting, or the golden shoe where you win every hand, or that monster roll on dice where you turn $100 into a few thousand, or when you're dealt a royal on ultimate X and you have huge multipliers already.
Of course, not all addictions are apparent, like the guy who drinks on occasion, but can't resist polishing off the whole bottle. By going on tilt, you lose control. When you're on tilt, you can't just "put the money down, don't chase the loss"....you have to put that big bet out there because you are determined you'll win.
So I guess you can say there are two types of addiction, one where you constantly obsess over something and need it (thinking about the next high), while the other, once reeled into it, they can't stop doing it (guy who goes on tilt, or takes one sip and can't put down the bottle).
Quote: FinsRuleRelated to this - I think there is a difference between an addiction and a problem. I'm addicted to gambling, but it has never been a problem.
To a certain extant, this applies to me as well. I get a "high" from gambling (or a "buzz"). But I budget out a bankroll and stick to that bankroll, so I keep my losses an affordable portion of my income. I had some catastrophic gambling losses in 2003 that royally screwed up my finances for about a year. In retrospect, I'm glad I made those terrible mistakes in 2003 because it was valuable knowledge I needed to learn about gambling, and there was no other way to learn that lesson.
Slightly off topic: some skiers get a "high" from the speed of downhill skiing, and yet no one refers to skiing as a compulsive addiction. Society is certainly a lot more judgemental of a gambling addict than a ski buff. Which is funny considering that skiing is much more dangerous than gambling! That's one perk to being a gambling addict and not a alcohol/tobacco/narcotic addict: the health consequences on your body are negligible.
Quote: BuzzardLike most threads about addiction, people think first of alcohol and gambling. We all have addictions. The lucky among us do not have destructive addictions. As A Chief Shop Steward at AT&T I have seen careers , lives, families destroyed by all sorts of addictions. Drugs, alcohol, and gambling are in the forefront. But closely behind are religion, sex, theft, and who knows what else.
Everybody needs a fix. And society changed about what is acceptable and what is not. 50 years ago drunk driving was not a big thing. But, betting on the numbers or collecting from those who did. OMG. what an evil person that made you.
Don King, boxing promoter, got a justifiable homicide plea for shooting in the back a man who had robbed one of his gambling joints.
He later stomped to death an employee who owed him $600. King served 4 years, then Jessie Jackson and the usual gang got him pardoned by the Governor.
Yet when started to go big time in boxing, the papers always wrote than he was a number runner. And think of the poor welfare mothers betting 50 cents on a number instead of buying milk for their babies.
Now the state runs the numbers and it is all so wonderful. The state pays 500-1 for a straight hit. Don King paid 700.
Looks to me like the government has an addiction
Outstanding, outstanding Post. "Everybody needs a fix. And society changed about what is acceptable and what is not" is my statement of the year thus far on WOV.
Thanks Buzz.
Quote: geoffWell generally speaking in order for something to be an addiction it has to be a problem. Otherwise it's just liking something a lot or even just needing something.
well thats the excuse they use for the high profile people who get caught cheating on their wife.
all of a sudden they are a "sex addict" when the have the "problem" of BEING CAUGHT
they are not a person of low morals, they are not a scumbag, they are not a self centered asshole.....nope they are sick people that need TLC to get better.
clinical addiction is not like being in "love". You can give many definitions of love....but there is a medical definition of addict.
So everyone here can give their own opinion of what addiction is....but in reality there is already a medically accepted clinical definition.
Just because you do something repeatedly that causes a problem...doesnt mean its an addiction. Wheather its cheating on your wife, robbing a 7-11, beating your girlfriend......its just bad behavior, undiciplined behavior, immoral behavior.....we cantgive everyone a free pass by bestowing the word "addict" on them
Quote: LarrySwell thats the excuse they use for the high profile people who get caught cheating on their wife.
all of a sudden they are a "sex addict" when the have the "problem" of BEING CAUGHT
they are not a person of low morals, they are not a scumbag, they are not a self centered asshole.....nope they are sick people that need TLC to get better.
clinical addiction is not like being in "love". You can give many definitions of love....but there is a medical definition of addict.
So everyone here can give their own opinion of what addiction is....but in reality there is already a medically accepted clinical definition.
Just because you do something repeatedly that causes a problem...doesnt mean its an addiction. Wheather its cheating on your wife, robbing a 7-11, beating your girlfriend......its just bad behavior, undiciplined behavior, immoral behavior.....we cantgive everyone a free pass by bestowing the word "addict" on them
I think you're an addict over what it means to be an addict.
Quote: LarrySJust because you do something repeatedly that causes a problem...doesnt mean its an addiction. Wheather its cheating on your wife, robbing a 7-11, beating your girlfriend......its just bad behavior, undiciplined behavior, immoral behavior.....we cantgive everyone a free pass by bestowing the word "addict" on them
I don't necessarily think all people do that, though. From a treatment standpoint, the question is less "What can we blame?" and more "What can we do to stop this from repeating?" If we treat it like an addiction, break the cycle, and gear people toward something more constructive, it seems to solve more problems than just punishing people.
There is a difference between bad behavior and compulsive behavior. People who have a compulsion or physical addiction HAVE to do whatever it is they are compelled to do. If a person blows $10,000 on the craps table to be a spiteful prick, that's bad behavior. If they do it because they're addicted to the rush (as in SERIOUSLY addicted, not just "I'm addicted to yada yada") then we have to prevent the problem a different way than just punishing the person and telling them not to be a dick.
Quote: hwccdealerI don't necessarily think all people do that, though. From a treatment standpoint, the question is less "What can we blame?" and more "What can we do to stop this from repeating?" If we treat it like an addiction, break the cycle, and gear people toward something more constructive, it seems to solve more problems than just punishing people.
There is a difference between bad behavior and compulsive behavior. People who have a compulsion or physical addiction HAVE to do whatever it is they are compelled to do. If a person blows $10,000 on the craps table to be a spiteful prick, that's bad behavior. If they do it because they're addicted to the rush (as in SERIOUSLY addicted, not just "I'm addicted to yada yada") then we have to prevent the problem a different way than just punishing the person and telling them not to be a dick.
OMG! I think I'm a compulsive gambler. :(
I need another drink.
OMG! I'm out of smokes. :(
"Honey, where did you put my last Budweiser" OMG!
why is there an empty budweiser bottle in the sink?
"Honey? HONEY!, OMG! :(
Quote: renoTo a certain extant, this applies to me as well. I get a "high" from gambling (or a "buzz"). But I budget out a bankroll and stick to that bankroll, so I keep my losses an affordable portion of my income. I had some catastrophic gambling losses in 2003 that royally screwed up my finances for about a year. In retrospect, I'm glad I made those terrible mistakes in 2003 because it was valuable knowledge I needed to learn about gambling, and there was no other way to learn that lesson.
Slightly off topic: some skiers get a "high" from the speed of downhill skiing, and yet no one refers to skiing as a compulsive addiction. Society is certainly a lot more judgemental of a gambling addict than a ski buff. Which is funny considering that skiing is much more dangerous than gambling! That's one perk to being a gambling addict and not a alcohol/tobacco/narcotic addict: the health consequences on your body are negligible.
Just because you get a high from something does not mean that you are addicted to it.
Quote: RSAddiction is not about how often or how much you do something. If you rarely drink, but when you do drink, you have trouble putting down the bottle, there's a problem.
If something is constantly on your mind, like you are preoccupied, there's likely a problem, over a long period of time. (ie: If your cat just died and that's all you can think about for a week....not a problem. But if you're always looking forward to the weekend because you'll get blacked out drunk....problem.) There's a high just thinking about it, where you create scenarios in your head, like splitting 8's to four hands, doubling all four of them, then the dealer busting, or the golden shoe where you win every hand, or that monster roll on dice where you turn $100 into a few thousand, or when you're dealt a royal on ultimate X and you have huge multipliers already.
Of course, not all addictions are apparent, like the guy who drinks on occasion, but can't resist polishing off the whole bottle. By going on tilt, you lose control. When you're on tilt, you can't just "put the money down, don't chase the loss"....you have to put that big bet out there because you are determined you'll win.
So I guess you can say there are two types of addiction, one where you constantly obsess over something and need it (thinking about the next high), while the other, once reeled into it, they can't stop doing it (guy who goes on tilt, or takes one sip and can't put down the bottle).
examples above could simply be a person with a lack of disciple,
give a person occasional access to alcohol and they dont have the discipline to know when to stop. Put someone in front of an all-you-can=eatbuffet, and they eatuntil they are physically ill. Put a box of candy in front of someone and they dont stop until its finished.....
People buy lottery tickets every week, and fantasize about winning. The ticket is basically a cheap fantasy vacation to daydream about every single week. Someone loves to go toitaly every year, and marks off the calender counting the days months and months in advance, obviously thinking of it everyday. Not even close to addictions. above'
Quote: NeutrinoSo, can someone show me the light? Help me understand and empathize with these ???? people.
I don't think there is anyone can help you understand when you are a bigot. Good for you that you are mentally healthy when one out of four Americans experience some mental illness. I sincerely hope the administrator in this forum can ban this user from posting more of those insulting messages to the people who need help.
Quote: KickassI sincerely hope the administrator in this forum can ban this user from posting more of those insulting messages to the people who need help.
The rules cover insults of forum members only. As much as I found the statement offensive that compulsive gamblers are retarded, my hands are tied by my own rules to do anything about it. The record should at note that the R word was removed by the original poster in the original post.
Every year in Colorado several skiers die in avalanches. Almost always skiing out-of-bounds. Like they have to ski where other people don't. Nobody says climbing Mount Everest is an addiction. Just pay anywhere from 35-100K, and do it in a season when fatality rate is
20%.
My suggestion , if you need adventure, play Russian Roulette. The odds are better. And if you lose, it only costs one bullet !
Quote: Buzzard" Slightly off topic: some skiers get a "high" from the speed of downhill skiing, and yet no one refers to skiing as a compulsive addiction. "
Some people might. I'm not saying I am an elite athlete by any means, but I know elite rock climbers you might say are. It seems to me that some of them are not happy unless they are one wrong move from death. They are sometimes called adrenaline junkies. I'm not saying they are, but they are often called that.
If you want a possible example, check out this 60 Minutes piece on Alex Honnold. He actually denies he climbs for the adrenaline, but you can see his first question is about it.
Wow that was amazing.Quote: WizardSome people might. I'm not saying I am an elite athlete by any means, but I know elite rock climbers you might say are. It seems to me that some of them are not happy unless they are one wrong move from death. They are sometimes called adrenaline junkies. I'm not saying they are, but they are often called that.
If you want a possible example, check out this 60 Minutes piece on Alex Honnold. He actually denies he climbs for the adrenaline, but you can see his first question is about it.
