RogerKint
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July 5th, 2012 at 1:45:05 PM permalink
Why are some people obsessed with gambling while others are completely unamused with gambling?

I recently invited a friend to Vegas with me. He complained "Are you going to gamble the whole time?" I said "duuuuuuuuuuh!". He said he had a confession to make and that was that gambling bores him. This was like blasphemy to me (No offense FrGamble).

It got me thinking about why I like gambling. Do I gamble as an investment or for entertainment? There are certainly a lot more productive, more healthy hobbies. Are those of us who like gambling self-centered in some way? Deep down do we think we're special because we're the ones who will hit the big jackpot? Are we the ones who have the secret advantage play that will grind down cash over the long-term? If those aren't the reasons, then shouldn't we be giving away the large part of our budget labeled "entertainment" to the poor and hungry?
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heather
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mamat
July 5th, 2012 at 2:22:03 PM permalink
I had zero interest in table games or gambling in general until I was in my late twenties. Some friends took me to Las Vegas for my 21st birthday and I spent maybe twenty minutes playing slots so I could say that I had and did no other gambling the whole trip. It was just something whose appeal eluded me.

Then as I got older I found myself getting more and more interested in table games, casino gambling, and the allure of the Baccarat room. Part of that for me was getting better jobs and suddenly finding myself with significantly more income than I was used to living on and realizing that I needed to find a new hobby. LOL. The mathematics of it really intrigued me, and the history, and I discovered high limit rooms and casino hosts and comps and found myself having a lot more fun. And I've been glad that I did ever since. The last time I stayed at the LV Hilton (maybe a year and a half ago), my host gave me a shopping card before I had even made it to the tables. LOL. I'm really sad that the Hilton has taken its big table Baccarat games out; I had such a great relationship with their hosts.

But of course it's different for everyone. I just wanted to mention my experience because I've seen arguments regarding the psychology of gambling that try to suggest that some people are born with a predisposition to gamble, and in my case I had no desire to until I was almost 30.

I don't hope to win big or whatnot. I feel like what I get in comps makes up for any losses, and it's fun when I come out ahead, but I'm not trying to break the bank. I just think that table games are fun. By that same token, however, I also think that playing through large amounts of cash is especially fun to do, which is probably unhealthy, but, hey, if you can afford it, why not? (I think that I mentioned that during the last few days that the Stardust was open they let us play cash-on-the-table Baccarat. I think I posted a pic here of the table covered in hundred dollar bills. That was awesome. I'd do that every weekend if I could.) So maybe that's something that might be interesting to look at (that I don't think that I've ever seen discussed): the appeal of tossing large amounts of money around for hours and hours on end.

Using my entertainment budget for entertainment has the best expected value for me. Maybe I'm shallow.
DJTeddyBear
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July 5th, 2012 at 2:34:13 PM permalink
You could ask that question about any type of activity or potential compulsive behavior.


Why are some people alcoholics, some heavy drinkers, some light drinkers and some who will have one drink a year?

Why are some people smokers, others former smokers, and others who have never lit up in their life?

I could go on....
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
RogerKint
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July 5th, 2012 at 3:08:26 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

You could ask that question about any type of activity or potential compulsive behavior.


Why are some people alcoholics, some heavy drinkers, some light drinkers and some who will have one drink a year?

Why are some people smokers, others former smokers, and others who have never lit up in their life?

I could go on....



No. Gambling is different and more fun, k? ;) All those other activities are usually done while doing something else (hopefully not while operating heavy machinery).
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Ayecarumba
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July 5th, 2012 at 4:16:49 PM permalink
I think DJTB is right. The action of taking a risk/getting a "reward" stimulates pleasure centers in the brain. The reaction in folks ranges from strong, out of control addiction, to boredom if the risk is so low, and the reward not, well... rewarding.

Some folks just don't like to risk their money. It is not entertainment to them. But most others like to compete and win. Getting "something for nothing" is always fun.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
EvenBob
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July 5th, 2012 at 5:52:11 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Getting "something for nothing" is always fun.



I never look at it as getting something for nothing. If
you're an AP, you have a tremendous amount of time
invested in learning how to win. This is an investment
that pays off in actual cash. If you're not an AP, and
your losses are higher than your wins, that is certainly
not getting something for nothing.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
MrV
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July 5th, 2012 at 5:54:55 PM permalink
I'm filled with self-loathing, and find casino gambling to be a cleaner form of self-destruction than pulling a Hemingway / Cobain.
"What, me worry?"
RogerKint
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July 5th, 2012 at 6:26:19 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

I'm filled with self-loathing, and find casino gambling to be a cleaner form of self-destruction than pulling a Hemingway / Cobain.



So you're saying it's better to die a slow death? ;)
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midwestgb
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July 5th, 2012 at 7:06:42 PM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

Why are some people obsessed with gambling while others are completely unamused with gambling?

I recently invited a friend to Vegas with me. He complained "Are you going to gamble the whole time?" I said "duuuuuuuuuuh!". He said he had a confession to make and that was that gambling bores him. This was like blasphemy to me (No offense FrGamble).

It got me thinking about why I like gambling. Do I gamble as an investment or for entertainment? There are certainly a lot more productive, more healthy hobbies. Are those of us who like gambling self-centered in some way? Deep down do we think we're special because we're the ones who will hit the big jackpot? Are we the ones who have the secret advantage play that will grind down cash over the long-term? If those aren't the reasons, then shouldn't we be giving away the large part of our budget labeled "entertainment" to the poor and hungry?



My personal rationalization is that gaming 'sharpens my saw' in a manner that is hard to describe precisely.
FrGamble
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July 5th, 2012 at 7:33:25 PM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

Why are some people obsessed with gambling while others are completely unamused with gambling?

I recently invited a friend to Vegas with me. He complained "Are you going to gamble the whole time?" I said "duuuuuuuuuuh!". He said he had a confession to make and that was that gambling bores him. This was like blasphemy to me (No offense FrGamble).

It got me thinking about why I like gambling. Do I gamble as an investment or for entertainment? There are certainly a lot more productive, more healthy hobbies. Are those of us who like gambling self-centered in some way? Deep down do we think we're special because we're the ones who will hit the big jackpot? Are we the ones who have the secret advantage play that will grind down cash over the long-term? If those aren't the reasons, then shouldn't we be giving away the large part of our budget labeled "entertainment" to the poor and hungry?



Gotta say Roger your question made me think again about this issue. I think the problem is that gambling for many reasons has such a bad reputation. For example you say, "there are certainly a lot more productive, more healthy hobbies." This is of course true if you are going to compare gambling or any hobby done sitting or standing in place with any type of physical activity or excercise. We should all be getting our excercise, but we should have other hobbies as well. When comparing gambling with stamp collecting, comic books, crosswords, or just watching TV is it really worse? I think we often have a knee-jerk reaction and call gambling intrinsically immoral, but I don't believe it is.

By the way your last line about giving away our entertainment budget to the poor does indeed sting my heart, and hopefully all of us. However, if we do take seriously our first commitment to love God and our neighbor I find it hard to believe God would begrudge us to spend a little on ourselves and have some fun.
Fiziks
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July 6th, 2012 at 5:44:24 AM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

Gotta say Roger your question made me think again about this issue. I think the problem is that gambling for many reasons has such a bad reputation. For example you say, "there are certainly a lot more productive, more healthy hobbies." This is of course true if you are going to compare gambling or any hobby done sitting or standing in place with any type of physical activity or excercise. We should all be getting our excercise, but we should have other hobbies as well. When comparing gambling with stamp collecting, comic books, crosswords, or just watching TV is it really worse? I think we often have a knee-jerk reaction and call gambling intrinsically immoral, but I don't believe it is.

By the way your last line about giving away our entertainment budget to the poor does indeed sting my heart, and hopefully all of us. However, if we do take seriously our first commitment to love God and our neighbor I find it hard to believe God would begrudge us to spend a little on ourselves and have some fun.



It's all about the perspective, really. Before I started gambling, I used that money on other things. I used to go shoot trap and skeet 2 times a week and sometimes more on the weekends. I don't really do that as much anymore, and the money that used to go toward that now goes into my bankroll. Now that I gamble with the money instead (I'm up $429 since I started [playing seriously] 3 months ago), it's viewed much differently. Friends think I'm wasting my money away at the casino, but in reality all of that money I had would be lost if I just used it to shoot trap and skeet. I find the rush from gambling more enjoyable, and the chance that I may win some extra cash to be worth it. If I lose, well, that money was already set aside and I know I can afford to. I've used the money that I've won to help friends out, and made a small donation to one of their newly started business ventures, as well as for other personal things.

I'm not sure why gambling gets such a bad wrap, but perhaps it comes from the people who always seem to do nothing but lose, and feel robbed because of it. Most people that I know don't understand house edge and make dumb bets that just set themselves up for failure. Then when they see me ahead, they feel like a cruel injustice has been done to them.
A correct answer is not always the solution to the problem.
Mission146
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July 6th, 2012 at 7:19:46 AM permalink
The way I look at gambling is that it's entertainment where you have a pretty good chance of coming out ahead financially. I always compare it to concert going: I can shell out $70 to go see Metallica, deal with the mad rush entering the venue, deal with getting banged around by the other Metallica fans, some opening band that I probably have no interest in, pay for parking, $8.00 for a crap beer, nasty restrooms if I have to take a leak, mad rush to the exits when it's over, horrible traffic, at least 75 minutes drive (from the nearest venue at which Metallica would conceivably play.

I'm out $70, there's no chance of recovery (short of the 1:100,000, or whatever, that someone drops a C-Note and I find it) and there's certainly no way this will be a profitable venture.

The alternative is that I can go to the casino where I probably leave ahead 30-40% of the time. It's thirty minutes from my house (fifteen from work), there's never a mad rush to get in, I don't get jostled when I am there, I don't have to wait to do what I want upon arriving at the venue, parking is free, great beer for under $4.00, usually, clean latrenes where one could eat off the seat and probably be alright (wouldn't try it, though) free coffee/pop, no rush/traffic when I am done, and just thirty minutes back to my house.

I take in $50, I leave with $100 or better 30-40% of the time. I can be entertained for the same two hours that Metallica would generally actually play, and I can make money. If I lose the $50 but don't feel like leaving yet, I can drink all of the coffee I want and just go observe the tables if there is anyone playing.

I'm sorry, but that just can't be beat.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
FarFromVegas
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July 6th, 2012 at 7:31:38 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

The way I look at gambling is that it's entertainment where you have a pretty good chance of coming out ahead financially. I always compare it to concert going: I can shell out $70 to go see Metallica, deal with the mad rush entering the venue, deal with getting banged around by the other Metallica fans, some opening band that I probably have no interest in, pay for parking, $8.00 for a crap beer, nasty restrooms if I have to take a leak, mad rush to the exits when it's over, horrible traffic, at least 75 minutes drive (from the nearest venue at which Metallica would conceivably play.

I'm out $70, there's no chance of recovery (short of the 1:100,000, or whatever, that someone drops a C-Note and I find it) and there's certainly no way this will be a profitable venture.

The alternative is that I can go to the casino where I probably leave ahead 30-40% of the time. It's thirty minutes from my house (fifteen from work), there's never a mad rush to get in, I don't get jostled when I am there, I don't have to wait to do what I want upon arriving at the venue, parking is free, great beer for under $4.00, usually, clean latrenes where one could eat off the seat and probably be alright (wouldn't try it, though) free coffee/pop, no rush/traffic when I am done, and just thirty minutes back to my house.

I take in $50, I leave with $100 or better 30-40% of the time. I can be entertained for the same two hours that Metallica would generally actually play, and I can make money. If I lose the $50 but don't feel like leaving yet, I can drink all of the coffee I want and just go observe the tables if there is anyone playing.

I'm sorry, but that just can't be beat.



I have the same attitude as you in that when you drop $100 for a concert or sporting event the money is gone and you've been entertained for 3 hours. In a casino you have a small chance of making some money, a better chance of coming home with at least part of the money, and you're actively engaged in playing rather than have someone else entertain you. I like to "make my own fun" rather than be passively entertained by a movie or concert.

We don't have casinos here, so when I go to Atlantic City or Vegas, of COURSE I'll gamble most of the time! I can shop or go to a show or the beach here at home. It's a once- or twice-yearly indulgence for me.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
FleaStiff
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July 6th, 2012 at 7:52:58 AM permalink
Consider the team sports player versus the solitary athletic type who wind surfs or rock climbs.

Each seeks a measure of excitement but there are major differences.

I occasionally found myself at an airport cafe on weekend mornings and would chat with the young ladies who had completed their skydiving adventures ... now those were real thrill seekers.

We all want some adrenalin rush but also have different views on risk avoidance. There are studies linking risky behavior and smoking and problem gambling. Perhaps there is a biochemical or genetic link.

There are also links between casinos and whorehouses for in each establishment the man must leave with a smile on his face, no matter what has transpired. A gambler who leaves a winner can repay that loan elsewhere and a man who didn't get his needs met at the whorehouse has other establishments he can visit. The good casinos learn to provide the excitement, the booze, the low cut uniforms ... but they are also providing 6:5 and Let It Die.

So sure, there are conflicts. Couples often gamble together but have different goals. Women often want their coffee in bed when they are on vacation, men are willing to go to the casino to get the free coffee. Yet after the coffee the real adrenaline starts to kick in.

Psychology? Many couples gamble in groups... that is they form free-floating adhoc liasons and agree to meet at different casinos or different games later on. For them the concept of gambling seems to embrace a socially share adrenaline but for many its a solitary stint at the craps table or slot machine that is important. I've seen one woman with a dozen or so TITO slips with low level fragmentary amounts from cashing out.... all those white slips are "her winnings" because she can look at the wad of them rather than add them up to find out they total less than fifty bucks.

Psychology? Don't worry. Casino managers are great at it.
TheBigPaybak
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July 6th, 2012 at 8:49:31 AM permalink
How many gamblers out there drive around looking for free parking for 15 mins to save a few bucks, but wouldn't think twice about betting hundreds or thousands?

Gambling can give you "permission" to travel and eat lavishly in a way you would otherwise not put yourself in the position for that to occur.

For me, it is a bit of a challenge to see if I can out-wit the casinos so I do keep score- and for entertainment. At the same time, I understand the math so as a non-advantage player, I'm leery of exactly when the sword of Damocles is going to fall- as eventually- it has to fall. But at the same time, I see if I can counter-balance the equation through comps and the like.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
teddys
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July 6th, 2012 at 9:31:21 AM permalink
Quote: TheBigPaybak

How many gamblers out there drive around looking for free parking for 15 mins to save a few bucks, but wouldn't think twice about betting hundreds or thousands?

I'm super-cheap and insist on the best deal whether it's for parking or gambling. Therefore, I'll play $25 pai gow tiles at Palazzo where they don't take the extra quarter for commission, or $25 blackjack by high limit in Mirage where the house edge is 0.27% and I'm actually giving up less than the folks playing $5 6:5 across the street at Bill's.

And yes, I have eaten from McDonald's dollar menu then gone to the casino and dropped a G afterwards :0.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
TheBigPaybak
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July 6th, 2012 at 9:41:48 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

And yes, I have eaten from McDonald's dollar menu then gone to the casino and dropped a G afterwards :0.



Quote of the day... :)
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
TIMSPEED
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July 6th, 2012 at 10:14:42 AM permalink
Quote: Fiziks

I'm not sure why gambling gets such a bad wrap, but perhaps it comes from the people who always seem to do nothing but lose, and feel robbed because of it. Most people that I know don't understand house edge and make dumb bets that just set themselves up for failure. Then when they see me ahead, they feel like a cruel injustice has been done to them.


You absolutely hit the nail on the head with that statement...that's EXACTLY why gambling gets a bad wrap.
As for my psychology of gambling...I do it because I understand the math behind it, and in the LONG RUN I am AT WOOOORSSSST breaking even, of course this doesn't count the hotel rooms/gourmet dining/vip events/golf outings...Things people who are MILLIONAIRES do, I am getting to do ALSO (and I am in NOOO WAAAY a millionaire)
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
98Clubs
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July 6th, 2012 at 10:21:08 AM permalink
Cap'n Jack Sparrow says it best
"Take all ye can:
Give none back."

Pirate (Gambling) Psychology at its simplest.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
WatchMeWin
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December 15th, 2016 at 10:15:26 AM permalink
Great question... I believe the deep underlying root of gambling is for the money. Otherwise, would you play any game if there was no monetary reward? We all need and want money to live how we want to live and do what we want to do. Most gamblers like easy money. And there is no easier way to pick up money instantaneously than by winning a bet.. or perhaps, if you are a trust fund baby.

The guys I know who need that action for boredom reasons, are the ones who have more money than they know what to do with. The others gamble to make money and try to have fun along the way... It is nice if the casinos have hot waitresses, but you are out of luck in AC except Borgata.

Do you think the NFL would be 50% as popular as it is if there werent betting lines or fantasy tournaments? People love the excitement of making money and proving to themselves that they are the smart ones by forecasting events.

That being said, thank you for listening, my name is wmw, and I am a gambler.... strictkly for the money!
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
mamat
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December 15th, 2016 at 2:28:16 PM permalink
Why do I gamble?

I like
(1) people-watching. But in casinos, I can make money while people-watching.
(2) music. Getting old. Like casino music for old people better than 2010s club music.
(3) food. Casinos usually don't have the best food, but it's hard for most restaurants to offer great buffets (due to the volume of people required to keep food fresh)
(4) travel. Some Indian casinos are tucked away in gorgeous areas with beautiful hills and countryside, often at the top of a hill with great views.
(5) exercise. I walk about 8 miles/day when gambling in casinos.
(6) math part of gambling is like going to 24 Hour Fitness for the mathematical part of my mind. I spent years doing emotional & physical activities to balance myself out, but there is a part from childhood which was very interested in math. Not so much math in business, so gambling brought that back.
(7) like the rush of winning money
(8) but most of the time, money for me is just a way of keeping score. to see if I can make x $/hr with y bankroll.
(9) like games. As a kid I used to enjoy games like hearts, spades, "I doubt it", bridge, scrabble, strategy, backgammon. But to play scrabble in a club, you have to pay rental fee for the property. If I play at a casino, the food, rooms, shows, cleaning staff, dealers, slot techs, etc... could be complementary.
(10) Real-life projects often have so many personal agendas, politics, etc... It's nice to do something which has less of that.
(11) AP gaming is like theater. What role do you take? How do you want the casino to perceive you if you are winning? Or if you are losing? Or doing both? Do you try to stay invisible? Do you act like you have a higher net worth than you actually do? Do you try to act like a typical AP who doesn't make much?
(12) I like analyzing the profitability of the casino business, looking at the sales & marketing strategies, employee happiness, management styles... which may affect my purchase/sale of casino stocks.

Casino gambling is a fun hobby. For some people it is work, and a way to pay the bills. For some it's a way to spend money (like paying for a movie & dinner).

If I didn't have #1-4 (people-watching, music, food, exercise), I would either (1) not gamble (2) gamble to make enough to retire, then quit.

Some people want the danger. They need to gamble big enough stakes so that a loss will hurt, and a win will change their lives.
Thirty years ago I might have taken that approach. Now, I like to win a little, and it's rare when I win more than 1% of my net worth. I still get adrenalin rushes & mini-depresssions, but nothing is "life-changing".
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