Hooters hotel-casino says bankruptcy possible

Quote: joshv

I think Hooters grossly over-estimated their own brand value from the very beginning, especially in a place like Vegas. Of course, having a crappy casino & hotel only made it worse.

As for the pay-for-play fair odds casino idea, I'm not entirely sure. A player would have to feel like he could make back the entry fee within the amount of time he expected to play there. I'm a low roller, $5 & $10 blackjack if I can find it, so I can go a long time before I lose 40 or 50 bucks on a normal day, even against a house edge inching toward 1%.

The Hooters restaurants don't do particularly bad in the resort. The hotel is probably about as good as can be expected. They simply hired the San Remo Executives to run the casino. The casino certainly makes more than the San Remo did, but not nearly enough to cover the interest on the huge loans they took out to purchase and renovate the place. I think that Hooters grossly over-estimated how well their own brand would transfer to a casino.

The pay-for-play fair odds casino idea is for the gambler who likes a lot of action. He pays upfront to feel guilt free about throwing lots of bets. Another blogger pointed out that people in Chicago will pay $20/ hour just for the right to play full pay blackjack with a $5 minimum. See I find that dumb, I would just switch games, I am talking about $50 for two hours of being able to throw proposition bets in craps, or play roulette and not have to worry about the HA. They're kitschy theme would be more suited to downtown instead of on the strip.

I think the Hooters would have done better if they bought one of the downtown casinos for a lot less money and renovated it. They would have more walk in traffic. In that sense they screwed up by paying a premium to be near the strip. If they picked up a place like Fitzgerald's they would probably have a profitable operation.

I would not pay a fee for better odds. But I will not pay a fee to do most things. I refuse to buy a Costco membership as well. On the other hand your basic idea and math is sound. It actually mirrors the Costco business model where the annual earnings are usually close to
the total of the annual 'membership fees'. Maybe the Hooters card comps could include lap dances that might attract a certain segment of the population.

Quote: kenarman

I would not pay a fee for better odds. But I will not pay a fee to do most things. I refuse to buy a Costco membership as well. On the other hand your basic idea and math is sound. It actually mirrors the Costco business model where the annual earnings are usually close to
the total of the annual 'membership fees'. Maybe the Hooters card comps could include lap dances that might attract a certain segment of the population.

I've often said there should be nudity in casinos. I don't know if this could pass regulations, but its something that someone in Vegas should try. There isn't much sin in Sin City thats not available in most people's home city.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

On my recent trip to A.C., I had dinner Friday evening, around 10pm, at Hooters in the Tropicana.

It was the first time I EVER ate at any Hooters.

Quite frankly, I have no idea what the appeal is, or how they stay in business, or why the place was filled to capacity. There were no available tables, but I was able to sit immediately at the counter.

The waitress saw me examining the menu for a long time, so she had to know I've never been to a Hooters before. At any rate, I ordered a Cheeseburger. I was not asked if I wanted fries, but was shocked when it arrived without them. I then ordered fries.

Gang, in my younger days, I worked in all sorts of restaurants. During the busy hours, fries were ALWAYS either ready to be served, or coming out of the frier. So why did it take a full five minutes to get my fries?


So I wonder why they stay in business.

And I wonder how much worse conditions can be at the Hooters casino.


And I am scared to consider that there is (or was) a Hooters airline.

Well there was your problem. You went to Hooters and ordered a cheeseburger. Wings, wings and more wings is what you should have gone with. Some people love them, some hate them, but they are different than what you get at most places.

i felt deceived from Hooter's $100 free slot play promotion.

Quote: pacomartin

I started this idea on another thread, but I would like to repost since I've had more time to think about it. Plus I found more operational data on Hooters.

(corporate high).

I just noticed that the new sands hotel in Singapore has a $100 daily fee for locals. This might be the place to see how all the bugs get worked out. I haven't followed the introduction of gambling in Singapore but assume the fee is to try and keep the locals from gambling.

Quote: ruascott

I've often said there should be nudity in casinos. I don't know if this could pass regulations, but its something that someone in Vegas should try. There isn't much sin in Sin City thats not available in most people's home city.

I don't think you'll ever see nudity on the casino floor.

While the casino is restricted to people 21 and older, children are allowed to pass through it acompanied by adults. In 99% of all Vegas hotels, you can't reach half the places without going through the casino first. So that's that.

Maybe at the party pits late at night, say after 10 PM. But then BJ would pay 2 for 3 (and some would consider that a bargain).

Quote: Nareed

BJ would pay 2 for 3 (and some would consider that a bargain).

Wow. That WOULD be a bargain!



Oh, wait. You're talking about the card game....

Quote: ruascott

Two things...

1) Good odds
2) More skin

Right now Hooters has neither. You get more skin at any 'party pit' in the city. From what I've read, their odds suck on most of their games as well (6:5 B/J).

There seems to be a discrepancy here. At the same time bloggers are saying that people are turned off by (6:5 B/J), and in the other breathe they say that only 1 in 20 will go for the pay for play.

Hooters has had a 33% drop in slots over the last 3 years and a 39% drop in table games. This is worst than most places on the strip, but most of the other casinos have had massive drops in slots, and in table games (other than baccarat).

In Vegas 1 in 20 means over 5000 people per day on average. I am trying to appeal to a fraction of 5000 people per day. In particular I am looking at casinos that don't have pedestrian traffic because I know that pay for play is not going to have curb appeal. I know that you can't add pay for play to the Flamingo.

Every single casino in the city now has some kind of sexy blackjack, yet blackjack revenue is down 34% from its peak on the strip just over 2 years ago. While the idea of looking at girls on poles has an obvious marketing appeal, it seems to be only tapping the brakes on a truck that is crashing down the hill.

By all normal rules of supply and demand I can't figure out why dozens of casinos aren't closing. Thousands of rooms in aging casinos all with plunging gaming revenue. Circus Circus, Riviera, Terribles, Sahara, Stratosphere, Hooters, Plaza Hotel & Las Vegas Club (downtown), the aging Fiesta Casinos, and dozens of other places. In January the number of empty hotel rooms midweek was over 50,000.

While Vegas is not going to vanish, there is a core Vegas that doesn't exist anywhere else in the USA, and is not going to be replaced by state sponsored slot clubs or racinos. But there is also a huge part of Vegas in aging casinos (or in some cases in building that were not built for eternity).

There are some people that will stay at the El Cortez downtown (364 rooms) which is the oldest purpose built casino-hotel in Vegas simply because they are the only casino left that has 4 tables with full pay single deck blackjack.

However, since a position (standing or sitting) in a pit is occupied by several people in a night, I don't see how you can have a permanent pay for play casino. The fees will have to pay be too high to replace people who simply lose a little here and a little there. I now believe that the only way it will work is to sell sessions for all or part of the pit.

Although there are millions of people who are math challenged, there seems to be a lot of people that read gambling websites. But I am not sure that it would all be math geeks. There are many people who know there is a difference between "9 to 1" instead of "9 for 1", and that a "yo" bet that pays 18 to 1 instead of 15 to 1 is better. They can weigh the difference between these odds on $5 bets against a fee. As I said earlier this would appeal to players that like lots of action. The casino would make a profit on attracting new customers, not on trying to wring more money out of their current customers.

Quote: Nareed

I don't think you'll ever see nudity on the casino floor.

While the casino is restricted to people 21 and older, children are allowed to pass through it acompanied by adults. In 99% of all Vegas hotels, you can't reach half the places without going through the casino first. So that's that.

Maybe at the party pits late at night, say after 10 PM. But then BJ would pay 2 for 3 (and some would consider that a bargain).

Ha, compared to the price of a gentlemen's club, that would be a bargain!