Boz
Boz
  • Threads: 155
  • Posts: 5701
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
May 9th, 2012 at 2:47:06 PM permalink
Looks like the lack of focus on players and gaming is having a negative effect on revenue. This number will place them near the bottom of all AC casinos. By comparison, Borgata did 54M in March and should be higher in April. Maybe now they will see that you have to offer players incentives to play at your casino when your competitors do.
thecesspit
thecesspit
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
May 9th, 2012 at 2:54:35 PM permalink
Is that gaming revenue or all revenue?
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1573
Joined: May 5, 2010
May 9th, 2012 at 2:56:45 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Looks like the lack of focus on players and gaming is having a negative effect on revenue. This number will place them near the bottom of all AC casinos. By comparison, Borgata did 54M in March and should be higher in April. Maybe now they will see that you have to offer players incentives to play at your casino when your competitors do.



Is that gaming revenue? Or total revenue? If it's gaming revenue, then the Grand Opening this month should help. They have a ridiculously long soft opening period anyways.

If it's TOTAL revenue, then the place is probably a bit screwed. I imagine Revel Entertainment Group will scramble after the summer to figure out a way to keep the club crowd coming during the winter months. WHEN (not if) that doesn't work, they'll be forced to go to at least a partly smoking floor, and figure out how to run a player's club. Problem is, once you upset old granny, she won't be back, and neither will her bus-full of friends.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Boz
Boz
  • Threads: 155
  • Posts: 5701
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
May 9th, 2012 at 2:59:46 PM permalink
Gaming revenue, sorry for not being clear. But still a problem when they could not fill 500 rooms and will now be up to over 1800.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1573
Joined: May 5, 2010
May 9th, 2012 at 3:04:31 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Gaming revenue, sorry for not being clear. But still a problem when they could not fill 500 rooms and will now be up to over 1800.



I don't think it's any secret that gaming revenue was not the intention of group to be the main source of revenue. They're trying to use an outdated Vegas Resort model that relies more on high-end restaurants, shows and nightclubs to stream in the money. Whether it will work or not is to be seen.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
WongBo
WongBo
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 2126
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
May 9th, 2012 at 3:24:10 PM permalink
prediction: FAIL
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
  • Threads: 207
  • Posts: 10992
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
May 9th, 2012 at 4:20:36 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

I don't think it's any secret that gaming revenue was not the intention of group to be the main source of revenue. They're trying to use an outdated Vegas Resort model that relies more on high-end restaurants, shows and nightclubs to stream in the money. Whether it will work or not is to be seen.

Bingo.

Please remember that everything about this place is focused upon the resort aspect rather than the gaming aspect.

That doesn't mean I think it will succeed, but that you can't focus upon the gaming revenue alone.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MrV
MrV
  • Threads: 364
  • Posts: 8158
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
May 9th, 2012 at 4:47:22 PM permalink
For their sake then, I hope they have employed every trick possible for the customer to access and enjoy the beach and its ocean bathing.

When I went to AC, I swam in the ocean and then gambled.

That is something few other gambling areas can offer.
"What, me worry?"
whatme
whatme
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 193
Joined: Apr 28, 2011
May 9th, 2012 at 4:51:53 PM permalink
Boz what is your source for the gaming revenue?

NJ DOGE site does not have April #'s yet.

I for one would wait for July and August info as that is the peak season, before making any perditions on their future.
Boz
Boz
  • Threads: 155
  • Posts: 5701
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
May 9th, 2012 at 5:59:29 PM permalink
AC Press article. They released the numbers themselves before the citywide numbers come out at 2PM on Thursday.
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 3502
Joined: May 10, 2010
May 9th, 2012 at 7:26:12 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

Once you upset old granny, she won't be back, and neither will her bus-full of friends.


Granny goes wherever the food deal is cheapest.
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 3502
Joined: May 10, 2010
May 9th, 2012 at 7:28:48 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

They're trying to use an outdated Vegas Resort model that relies more on high-end restaurants, shows and nightclubs to stream in the money.


Yeah, whatever happened to the Showboat's bowling alley and the Trop's Tivoli Pier? There was certainly enough hype about those two losers.
pacomartin
pacomartin
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
May 9th, 2012 at 8:05:27 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

AC Press article. They released the numbers themselves before the citywide numbers come out at 2PM on Thursday.



Well, it was a soft opening, and nobody expected them to be the city wide leaders. But I was pretty sure they would at least come in at Tropicana levels. They just barely will beat the over the hill gang.

Probably a good idea to release the gaming numbers a day early. I don't think we'll see non-gaming numbers until August.

March numbers
ACH (Atlantic Club) $9,532,583
Trump Plaza $9,927,554
Resorts $11,113,375
Golden Nugget $11,164,638


Showboat $22,263,450
Tropicana $25,693,222
Bally's AC $26,855,911
Trump Taj Mahal $28,912,509
Caesars $31,249,816
Harrah's $35,400,352
Borgata $54,066,219
EvenBob
EvenBob
  • Threads: 441
  • Posts: 28570
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
May 9th, 2012 at 8:37:21 PM permalink
A Bronx Cheer to all of you who called me names
when I said a smokeless casino in AC will flop.
Wait till they see the quarterly earnings in a few
months.

"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 5328
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
May 9th, 2012 at 9:02:06 PM permalink
EVENBOB " A Bronx Cheer to all of you who called me names "

You need a much bigger cat for that many people.
Boz
Boz
  • Threads: 155
  • Posts: 5701
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
May 10th, 2012 at 11:54:49 AM permalink
Overall a 10% decline from 2011 for AC casinos. Trop was the only casino up from last year. So the debate is still if Revel stole customers from other casinos and really didn't effect the overall numbers, or if they would have been worse if Revel didnt bring some new business to town.

Either way, AC is on the decline as gambling grows elsewhere. At this rate, you may see Don Marandino back working for Fiesta in the near future!
vendman1
vendman1
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 1034
Joined: Mar 12, 2012
May 10th, 2012 at 12:51:43 PM permalink
I would agree with most of this board that AC has serious problems....but...wasn't Revel open only 8 or 9 days in April?...I think the soft opening started 4/23 or thereabouts? So hardly fair to compare that to a full month of business at other casinos.
Boz
Boz
  • Threads: 155
  • Posts: 5701
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
May 10th, 2012 at 12:56:34 PM permalink
Opened April 2nd to the public. Only 1 day short of a full month.
vendman1
vendman1
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 1034
Joined: Mar 12, 2012
May 10th, 2012 at 1:03:30 PM permalink
Opened April 2nd to the public. Only 1 day short of a full month

Yep you are right Boz...let that be a lesson to me; always Google before posting. Still, lets wait and see the numbers when they are open for real before we start digging the grave.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1573
Joined: May 5, 2010
May 10th, 2012 at 2:11:36 PM permalink
Quote: vendman1

Still, lets wait and see the numbers when they are open for real before we start digging the grave.



Go ahead on start getting those shovels ready. The CASINO portion should be doing a lot of business, even in the soft opening, as that's when the hardcore gamblers are going to go check it out. As it's be repeated numerous times, Revel isn't going after the gambling population; they want the party crowd. THE PARTY CROWD WILL NOT COME OUT IN OCTOBER THRU FEBRUARY!!

I repeat, THE PARTY CROWD WILL NOT COME OUT IN OCTOBER THRU FEBRUARY! That's when the gaming portion has to be able to sustain itself. Without offering free rooms (very often) and not appealing to gambling customers, it's revenue will sharply decrease during those winter months, when ALL AC casinos have problems. Borgata got it about as right as you could get it, and why they didn't follow that model I'll never know. Instead, they are using the Cosmopolitan model... and we all know how that's going...
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
pacomartin
pacomartin
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
May 10th, 2012 at 2:25:25 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

Instead, they are using the Cosmopolitan model... and we all know how that's going...



It would seem that Cosmopolitan is a good comparison.

But sometimes I wonder if their is a fine art to attracting gamblers. Hard Rock spent a fortune trying to attract serious gamblers, and they ended up spending $2 for every extra $1 they attracted. One could say that Hooters, which had less ambitious goals, failed to attract even the level of play of a typical locals casino.

I decided that many of these places simply don't have the expertise to attract gamblers. It is not that they are pursuing a different business model. They may have a lot of marketing skill (or education) to attract people to resorts, but gamblers are different.

The problem with trying to make money on food, is that everyone knows what good food should taste like. It is possible to get some people to spend huge amounts of money on food, but you have huge costs buying quality food. Revel, like Cosmopolitan may run a good business on rooms and food, but they will never justify the huge amounts of money sunk into the construction of the place.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 1573
Joined: May 5, 2010
May 10th, 2012 at 2:36:03 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

It would seem that Cosmopolitan is a good comparison...



It's the best comparison I can come up with. Unfortunately, there are a lot of differences where Cosmopolitan has succeeded yet Revel is likely to fail.

1) Cosmopolitan is still going after gamblers- They are running decent promotions (excellent for the Strip) to attract new players. They have a tiered card system, and they hired some of the best dealers in the area (and there's a good pool to choose from). Revel has done none of those things (to my knowledge). I just went to the website, and there is NO MENTION of the player's club. NONE! I put it in the search even, and only nightclub information came up. This isn't going to attract hardcore gamblers at all.

2) Cosmopolitan is in a prime location- In between CityCenter (and more accessible) and Bellagio, across from Planet Hollywood... what more could you want?? It would be very easy to argue that this is THE BEST location in the new Strip. Revel is on the North end of Atlantic City, and it's best feature is spectacular views of the ocean. That's incredible, but nothing an ocean view room at any other Boardwalk hotel can't provide.

3) Cosmopolitan is exclusive, without being TOO exclusive- Yes, Cosmopolitan has the nightclub vibe and hardcore gamblers may not feel entirely at ease, but they still feel a part of the action. I gather from the reviews that Revel is a private nightclub that is tough to get into, and even while you are there, you're not at ease...

Quote: pacomartin

I decided that many of these places simply don't have the expertise to attract gamblers. It is not that they are pursuing a different business model. They may have a lot of marketing skill (or education) to attract people to resorts, but gamblers are different.

The problem with trying to make money on food, is that everyone knows what good food should taste like. It is possible to get some people to spend huge amounts of money on food, but you have huge costs buying quality food. Revel, like Cosmopolitan may run a good business on rooms and food, but they will never justify the huge amounts of money sunk into the construction of the place.



Well said, like always. However, I disagree that Revel will be able to sustain itself after the summer season has ended. It will be hard to maintain that "high-end" image while charging $39-$79 a night on weekdays during December. Even Caesars and Borgata offers good rates at that time. I imagine their cheap rate will be in the low 100s, and with as much competition as there is in AC, it will kill the business.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
  • Jump to: