Who made the money on Las Vegas Sands success
October 8th, 2012 at 8:47:59 AM
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LV Sands had it's IPO in December 13, 2004 roughly 6 months after it's initial property (The Sands Macao) opened in China. The stock has never split.
The current stock price is nearly the same as the initial price at the IPO. So someone who held the stock for 8 years only earned the dividends. But the company has grown wildly in those last 8 years.
Am I mistaken or does that seem wrong to you?
BTW an analyst thinks the Sands stock is widely undervalued. He believes that splitting the company could unleash the true value in the company.
Can Splitting Las Vegas Sands Double The Share Price?
The current stock price is nearly the same as the initial price at the IPO. So someone who held the stock for 8 years only earned the dividends. But the company has grown wildly in those last 8 years.
Am I mistaken or does that seem wrong to you?
BTW an analyst thinks the Sands stock is widely undervalued. He believes that splitting the company could unleash the true value in the company.
Can Splitting Las Vegas Sands Double The Share Price?
October 8th, 2012 at 8:50:58 AM
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Isn't it thinly traded with a tremendously high proportion of shares retained by insiders?
October 8th, 2012 at 8:52:40 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffIsn't it thinly traded with a tremendously high proportion of shares retained by insiders?
Yes.
October 8th, 2012 at 9:11:39 AM
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Are you talking about "LVS"? I wouldn't consider that stock as "thinly traded" as it has averaged 9.2M shares in daily volume over the last 90 days.
Certainly if you didn't think it was a good time to sell at some point along the way up to $135 from the IPO then perhaps you got a bit greedy.
It has had a 25X move from the bottom when it hit $1.77.
The buy and hold strategy in individual stocks doesn't seem to work except with exceptional companies with significant proprietary businesses.
You need to trade LVS to make money.....I don't really like it right here and think you will get a chance to buy it with a three handle later this year. Anything under $40 is probably a good entry point for a trade to the high $40's maybe even $50 sometime next year.
At the end of the day, LVS is just another gaming enterprise.....a great one because if does have some exclusivity in locations, but ultimately even that advantage will erode over time.
Certainly if you didn't think it was a good time to sell at some point along the way up to $135 from the IPO then perhaps you got a bit greedy.
It has had a 25X move from the bottom when it hit $1.77.
The buy and hold strategy in individual stocks doesn't seem to work except with exceptional companies with significant proprietary businesses.
You need to trade LVS to make money.....I don't really like it right here and think you will get a chance to buy it with a three handle later this year. Anything under $40 is probably a good entry point for a trade to the high $40's maybe even $50 sometime next year.
At the end of the day, LVS is just another gaming enterprise.....a great one because if does have some exclusivity in locations, but ultimately even that advantage will erode over time.
October 8th, 2012 at 12:00:19 PM
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Quote: ParadigmAt the end of the day, LVS is just another gaming enterprise.....a great one because if does have some exclusivity in locations, but ultimately even that advantage will erode over time.
True enough. But the 7.22% performance YTD isn't exactly chopped liver. Nor is the EBITDA of $3.2 billion.
October 8th, 2012 at 12:18:26 PM
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Mitt Romney and Newt GingrichQuote: pacomartinWho made the money on Las Vegas Sands success
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
October 8th, 2012 at 12:29:19 PM
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I sold in September of 2007 at about $130....so I guess I did, for one.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
October 8th, 2012 at 3:29:45 PM
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Quote: SanchoPanzaTrue enough. But the 7.22% performance YTD isn't exactly chopped liver. Nor is the EBITDA of $3.2 billion.
It is chopped liver compared to S&P500 up 15.7% + divvys. LVS is much more volatile and should be giving you a greater return over time than the index.
It and Wynn are the cream of the crop in gaming companies, no doubt.....I actually prefer LVS due to Signapore and greater exposure in Macau. I'll buy back in under $40 if it gets there, and I think it will with the continued "China growth is slowing" scare making headlines.
I have traded in and out of it twice this year and it has been my 2nd best position of 2012.
October 8th, 2012 at 3:30:12 PM
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Quote: WongBoI sold in September of 2007 at about $130....so I guess I did, for one.
Well done WongBo!
October 8th, 2012 at 4:23:38 PM
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Quote: WongBoI sold in September of 2007 at about $130....so I guess I did, for one.
It hit an all time high $148.76 on Oct. 29, 2007 so you were pretty close to the peak. In March 2009 it closed at $1.42 which is astonishing. But if you held on through thick and thin you would have made "nothing".
October 17th, 2012 at 11:06:42 AM
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The bondholders... This Co has about 9BB in debt or so. I believe most of that debt was a result of Macau building which I think they eventually issued equity in Hong Kong.
Anyway the bond were more or less kept out of the public domain and probably went straight to Credit Hedge funds and mutual funds. I think the convertibles paid around 6.5% but they could have been priced at a discount so hard to say how much was really made by them.
I didn't own it then or now but if any of the bonds converted to equity that would absolutely be a drag on existing shareholders as the company swapped equity to get rid of debt...an expensive move if you have to get sell equity when your ROE is 17% when your return on assets is 7.2%... but during the credit crunch a lot of co's made that painful decision
Anyway the bond were more or less kept out of the public domain and probably went straight to Credit Hedge funds and mutual funds. I think the convertibles paid around 6.5% but they could have been priced at a discount so hard to say how much was really made by them.
I didn't own it then or now but if any of the bonds converted to equity that would absolutely be a drag on existing shareholders as the company swapped equity to get rid of debt...an expensive move if you have to get sell equity when your ROE is 17% when your return on assets is 7.2%... but during the credit crunch a lot of co's made that painful decision
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because."
— E.E. Cummings
November 21st, 2012 at 2:13:22 AM
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One of the "Hedge" fund managers was on Bloomberg last night. He was promoting the break up of Sands with claims among others that "Macau was just getting started" and was like Las Vegas when it began. Utter nonsense if you follow it at all. The place is running out of land so they say and permits are not being issued so easily. Credit is again key to many gaming entities there. I mean players getting credit or coming on junkets with someone behind the scene putting up the money. Careful, be careful, is all I'm saying.
