Riverboat Roulette -- Roulette with Place Bets / Multiple Spin Wagers
Quote: SOOPOOHere is why it won't work. Roulette players tend to spread a certain amount around on each spin. I do NOT think your new bet options will increase that amount, it will just shift money from one bet to another. And considering your bets take longer to resolve, and have a lower house edge, please explain why a casino would even consider choosing your game over traditional roulette? Is it that you think it will attract new, previously non-roulette players? I highly doubt it.
I believe casinos likes the idea of increased revenue for the existing space their tables take up. Players may increase their average bet per spin in order to get the multiple spin option. AND...not to bring up "craps" again...but why would a casino offer a place bet in that game when it takes longer to resolve than single roll wagers?
Quote: DJTeddyBearI don't know why I haven't mentioned this sooner....
There is already a Roulette variant that uses 6 colors, instead of the traditional 2.
There is a page about it on the Wizard of Odds site: Diamond Roulette.
When I was last at Taj Mahal, I took a picture of it. Sorry for the odd angles. Click for larger versions.
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I'm aware of that game but it doesn't offer a multiple spin option....which is the main feature of our game. Additionally, there is no Red / Black on that game.
Quote: doubleluck
Thanks for letting me know that traditional roulette is so "perfect" while simultaneously describing it as "confusing". How did you EVER master it? lol
I get it. PLEASE take this concept to the expo, I'm begging
you. You'll have no trouble selling it and getting 500
installs by the end of the year. Its a money maker..
Sarcasm Alert
Quote: SOOPOOAnd considering your bets take longer to resolve, and have a lower house edge, please explain why a casino would even consider choosing your game
I didn't think of that. The casino gets paid on every losing
bet on every spin in regular roulette. Why are they going to
want to wait for multiple spins to collect on a lower HE bet.
They're not, why would they.
Quote: doubleluckI believe casinos likes the idea of increased revenue for the existing space their tables take up. Players may increase their average bet per spin in order to get the multiple spin option. AND...not to bring up "craps" again...but why would a casino offer a place bet in that game when it takes longer to resolve than single roll wagers?
Just my opinion... I think your game would decrease revenue over the existing 'plain' roulette. Craps place bets are higher house edge than the main- pass or don't pass bet. Your bets are either equal or LESS house edge than the main roulette bets. I wish you well, but I just don't think you will succeed in getting a casino to give it a shot, for the reasons I've stated, as well as the 'ergonomic' reason of making it harder for the dealer to sweep away losing bets.
Quote: SOOPOOJust my opinion... I think your game would decrease revenue over the existing 'plain' roulette. Craps place bets are higher house edge than the main- pass or don't pass bet. Your bets are either equal or LESS house edge than the main roulette bets. I wish you well, but I just don't think you will succeed in getting a casino to give it a shot, for the reasons I've stated, as well as the 'ergonomic' reason of making it harder for the dealer to sweep away losing bets.
Thanks.....the new multi-spin bets would be swept when a white number hits, however, when a white number is not the outcome, they are dealt as any other outside bet and picked.
How are you going to get those convoluted rules onto a rack card ?
I am solely a craps player and only play a little roulette to try and win that 35:1 to make up for my other gambling losses. This would interest me for a little money, but most definitely not become my new game.
Good luck, I like the idea but it's not for me.
Edit: You do state the win/lose/push rules pretty clearly but something about it is confusing. For something as simple as roulette, complicating it is entirely on you to make stupid simple. I'm sorry guys but roulette is simple. You can make it as complicated as you want, but that doesn't get rid of the green zeros on the board.
or less: Every bet on the layout has the same house
edge, with one exception. The 1-2-3-0-00 bet, which
has a higher edge. There are no 'better bets' in roulette,
they are all equal except for the basket bet.
Quote: buzzpaffThere as none so blind as those who will not see.
How are you going to get those convoluted rules onto a rack card ?
Multiple spin colored neighborhoods wagers win odds on winning outcomes, only lose on white neighborhood outcomes, and push on all other outcomes.
Oh, that's much simpler .
Quote: ParadigmThat makes sense....l didn't really look at the math on that, just trying to get you away from 8-5 & 7-5 payouts.....those are going to be hard on a $1 bet so I guess these are going to be $5 min bets only?
Can you get to all "X to 1" payouts if you get rid of some of the red/black/green spots and add more white out spots. Again, just trying to figure out how to get away from those "8-5" & "7-5" payouts as I see that as a sticking point.
Yes...since they're outside bets the minimums are $5 wagers. Additionally, we do have a version that has 8 neighborhoods (4 colors on each side)...with this version the eight 3-spot neighborhoods all pay 2:1.
hybrids have, it takes an already slow game and
slows it down even more. When a table is busy,
20-25 spins an hour are norn. Add all this to it,
make even more payouts for the dealer, and it
will slow down to 15-20 an hour. Or less. The
casino translates this to less money bet per hour
and less profit made.
Quote: doubleluckMultiple spin colored neighborhoods wagers win odds on winning outcomes, only lose on white neighborhood outcomes, and push on all other outcomes.
I find your game quite easy to understand. Hit the chosen color before white. Get odds because there are less numbers in the chosen color than white.
I am not a game designer. Of course you must figure out the odds when you present the game, and the house edge using your paytable.
Do you also have to present data on the number of expected spins, and how many fewer you expect with the additional work the dealer will be doing?
Do you also have to present data on the expected decrease in the other roulette bets that your bets will cause?
If I was a casino thinking about your game, those are two main questions I would want to know.
But I doubt one would be interested in this game. Admire the go it alone attitude, but your feedback might want you to reconsider.
Quote: SOOPOOI find your game quite easy to understand. Hit the chosen color before white. Get odds because there are less numbers in the chosen color than white.
Ah, but there are two games here, not one.
Try explaining both to a newbie and see how
easy it is. If this was a stand alone game it
would be far easier to understand. I have
trouble because there are two games being
played on one layout.
Just curious, did the patent attorney, friends , family, all tell you this was a good idea ?
Just asking.
Quote: SOOPOOI find your game quite easy to understand. Hit the chosen color before white. Get odds because there are less numbers in the chosen color than white.
I am not a game designer. Of course you must figure out the odds when you present the game, and the house edge using your paytable.
Do you also have to present data on the number of expected spins, and how many fewer you expect with the additional work the dealer will be doing?
Do you also have to present data on the expected decrease in the other roulette bets that your bets will cause?
If I was a casino thinking about your game, those are two main questions I would want to know.
The expected spins before a white out is is 8/38 or 4.75 times before the multiple spin bets would be expected to lose.
Currently, there is no present data on possible decreases in other roulette bets as the game has not yet been placed and was just approved for play in NV last month.
Quote: buzzpaffG2E will surely be an experience for you as has been your reception here.
Just curious, did the patent attorney, friends , family, all tell you this was a good idea ?
Just asking.
Of course! All of those folks said it was a great idea -- but that was expected and has to be totally ignored....therefore, that's why I come here to get the other side of the story!
Quote: buzzpaffDo you have a brochure or handout for anyone at G2E ? Sample rack card ?
Yes, we have both.
So when wife places $8 at 7/5 she will win $11.20 ??/
That should be FUN
Quote: EvenBobThis has the same overall problem that all roulette
hybrids have, it takes an already slow game and
slows it down even more. When a table is busy,
20-25 spins an hour are norn. Add all this to it,
make even more payouts for the dealer, and it
will slow down to 15-20 an hour. Or less. The
casino translates this to less money bet per hour
and less profit made.
Most of the best will push, when there is a win only 1 colored section will be paid and all other bets stay up, when white hits everything is swept.
Quote: doubleluckYes, we have both.
Care to share or already feeling too beat up ?
Quote: buzzpaffWow Lots cheaper to trial somewhere besides Vegas.
So when wife places $8 at 7/5 she will win $11.20 ??/
That should be FUN
Can't bet $8 on an outside bet....all outside bets are $5 minimums.
Quote: buzzpaffCare to share or already feeling too beat up ?
Beat up!?!?! Hell no! I was an Air Force Recruiter for over 18 years my skin is thicker than an elephant's!
Quote: doubleluckCan't bet $8 on an outside bet....all outside bets are $5 minimums.
$8 is more than $5, is it not ?
Quote: buzzpaffGee I missed that in the rules !
No, you didn't....I just "assumed" that everyone understood that anything that is not on the inside HAD to be an outside bet. Once again, MY mistake and good feedback to me on ensuring that is better defined and clearly spelled out.
Quote: doubleluckOf course! All of those folks said it was a great idea -- but that was expected and has to be totally ignored....therefore, that's why I come here to get the other side of the story!
Well, you could have come here before you spent all that money !
Quote: buzzpaff$8 is more than $5, is it not ?
Yes it is....but it cannot be paid out correctly if that were allowed -- the same reason casinos don't allow $6-$9 bets on games that pay 6/5 odds on blackjacks.
Quote: buzzpaffBob, I think it's time for me and you to combine Keno with Roulette .
No, I already game up with that! Negative feedback, still my idea. More than one person suggested it might work on a video-type game, though.
Quote: doubleluck
the game has not yet been placed and was just approved for play in NV last month.
So its patented then? All you have to do is find a
distributer to take it on?
The only thing I can see that would be appealing
about this game is the player might not lose a
colored bet right away. But he will lose, and because
each spin is an independent trial, his odds of winning
never go up. Even if he gets to let a bet sit there
six times in a row, his odds of winning are the same
on the 7th spin as they were on the 1st spin. Thats
the beauty of roulette.
Quote: doubleluckYes it is....but it cannot be paid out correctly if that were allowed -- the same reason casinos don't allow $6-$9 bets on games that pay 6/5 odds on blackjacks.
Oh yes they do. But you get 6 for 5 and 3 for 3 on your 8 dollar bet.
Plus now you need to define outside bets. I think I can bet $8 on even, can I BOB ?
Quote: EvenBobSo its patented then? All you have to do is find a
distributer to take it on?
The only thing I can see that would be appealing
about this game is the player might not lose a
colored bet right away. But he will lose, and because
each spin is an independent trial, his odds of winning
never go up. Even if he gets to let a bet sit there
six times in a row, his odds of winning are the same
on the 7th spin as they were on the 1st spin. Thats
the beauty of roulette.
True!
Quote: buzzpaffOh yes they do. But you get 6 for 5 and 3 for 3 on your 8 dollar bet.
Plus now you need to define outside bets. I think I can bet $8 on even, can I BOB ?
Multi-spin bets are a minimum of $5 and then in increments of $5
Quote: Mission146No, I already game up with that! Negative feedback, still my idea. More than one person suggested it might work on a video-type game, though.
Keno for Roulette?!?!? Roulette IS Keno!!!
Quote: doubleluckTrue!
So this game benefits the player not a whit. And is
bad for the casino. Less of a HE, longer time between
spins, more confusing for dealers and players.
I'm not seeing any selling points here.
distributor to take it on?
Preferred route would have been to trial in another state, then find a distributor.
More cost effective, but this looks like a loser.
confusing layout, confusing rules, offer bets at a lower He that take longer to resolve.
confusion might go away but the impact on win will not.
Quote: EvenBobSo its patented then? All you have to do is find a
distributer to take it on?
The only thing I can see that would be appealing
about this game is the player might not lose a
colored bet right away. But he will lose, and because
each spin is an independent trial, his odds of winning
never go up. Even if he gets to let a bet sit there
six times in a row, his odds of winning are the same
on the 7th spin as they were on the 1st spin. Thats
the beauty of roulette.
Bob,
That's also the psychology of gambling.....NOT losing is viewed many times as "winning". Ever hear the phrase "A push is a win?" It's BS but people buy into it. As a result, we believe that when a player "doesn't lose" he/she will get a false sense of security and bet on more wagers in order to get some sort of return.
I believe he will stand there grinning and think how smart he is. Why bet when i am not losing ?
Quote: buzzpaff
Preferred route would have been to trial in another state, then find a distributor.
NV doesn't view a variation as a "new game", therefore, we didn't have to get a field trial on the game nor pay the higher filing fees that other states require for "new games". Believe it or not, Nevada was the most economical state to get the game approved.
Quote: buzzpaffGee I wish you guys were in Focus Group 1. Then I would not have had the worst game there .
Maybe so, but we wouldn't have been complaining about how the results were fixed when Roger won! lol
Most can be bought for a meal ?
Quote: doubleluckKeno for Roulette?!?!? Roulette IS Keno!!! lol
You find my idea amusing?
That's ironic.
At least I just came up with an idea, posted it here, got feedback. Didn't cost me a dime.
I wish you luck, though, I mean that sincerely. I hope that this game catches on, I hope that they all do.
Quote: doubleluckBob,
..NOT losing is viewed many times as "winning".
By some, yes, certainly not by all. If thats your plan,
to fool people by thinking they're getting something
when they really aren't, you don't have a prayer.
Hopefully you only got a provisional patent and don't
have a lot of time and money invested in this.
