rsactuary
rsactuary
Joined: Sep 6, 2014
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Thanks for this post from:
bobbartop
April 10th, 2017 at 1:03:07 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

Quote: rsactuary

Quote: RS

Add 9 coins to any four of a kind.



And straight flush and royal flush.



I did not know this. Are you absolutely sure? If so, thanks, I learned something. And I'll have to bump up my numbers a tiny bit.



Absolutely positive. They will award a scratcher for a SF or RF.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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April 10th, 2017 at 1:07:52 PM permalink
Quote: LostWages

I've wanted to play at 4Q for the longest time, but my spouse prefers not to go there. Perhaps on a day she goes shopping, I will venture out!

Thanks for the encouragement to get the software - intellectually, I concur with you 100%. It's not the money, but rather the amount of disposable "free" time available after completing "honeydew" time. :-)

Several other posters chimed in about adding the 8 or 9 coins, but I'm still stumped as to "where" I'm adding it to get those ER % increased. I understand this is a situation (scratchers) unique to MSS. I think my description of adding 3 coins for the Boar's Head Bar conditions seals the deal for me (for now!).

Thanks again!




I'm sorry, I skipped the "9 coins" because I thought the other guys covered that. I guess what I meant, Lost Wages, is that when I am figuring the return with the extra from the scratchers, I would be adding that into my SOFTWARE, and then clicking a button that tells me the return. I sure couldn't figure it out by myself, I'm a math dummy. :-)
Don't believe anything until it is officially denied.
bobbartop
bobbartop
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Thanks for this post from:
LostWages
April 10th, 2017 at 1:12:41 PM permalink
Quote: LostWages

I've wanted to play at 4Q for the longest time, but my spouse prefers not to go there. Perhaps on a day she goes shopping, I will venture out!



Lost Wages, this sounds like a problem for the Dr.Laura Board, not Wizard of Vegas.

PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN, MAN! :-)
Don't believe anything until it is officially denied.
LostWages
LostWages
Joined: May 6, 2013
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April 10th, 2017 at 1:22:51 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I'm sorry, I skipped the "9 coins" because I thought the other guys covered that. I guess what I meant, Lost Wages, is that when I am figuring the return with the extra from the scratchers, I would be adding that into my SOFTWARE, and then clicking a button that tells me the return. I sure couldn't figure it out by myself, I'm a math dummy. :-)

Ah, ok! Mystery/Misery solved. Get the software!
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
Romes
Romes 
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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Thanks for this post from:
bobbartop
April 10th, 2017 at 1:28:57 PM permalink
Quote: LostWages

Ah, ok! Mystery/Misery solved. Get the software!

I assume the software runs simulations based on bankroll and variance for possible outcomes?

If you're just looking for the return of games, the Wizard offers free video poker calculator and analyzer which you can modify the pay table to whatever you see (and add the 9 coins to the top payouts for MSS specific situation) and it gives you the payback percentage...

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/analyzer/
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
LostWages
LostWages
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April 19th, 2017 at 1:12:24 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

If you're just looking for the return of games, the Wizard offers free video poker calculator and analyzer which you can modify the pay table to whatever you see (and add the 9 coins to the top payouts for MSS specific situation) and it gives you the payback percentage...

https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/analyzer/



Y'know, I must have seen (ignored) this calculator and analyzer dozens of times. I have never read as clear an explanation on using the VP analyzer as clear as the one you provided!! Thanks for encouraging me to be more number-conscious when the situation calls for it. Math is helping ask better questions now, because with numbers there is a common denominator (pun not intended!).

MSS is currently the only casino offering scratcher cards for a natural four of a kind. The discussions elsewhere in the WoV say that scratchers are also given for a straight flush and Royal Flush ("I swear . . . ". "For sure . . .". "I think . . . "). To end the debate on that topic, I re-read the Rules for "Score with Four":

http://static.boydgaming.net/mainstreet/media/downloads/Sw4_Rack_Card_web.pdf

There was no mention of straight flushes or Royal Flushes. What to do? Well, if I can ask a PB for comps after only playing 25 min of $5 BJ, I figured I could pick up the phone and talk to the MSS Slots Director or one of his staff to ask about scratchers. I was able to talk to the Asst Director of Slots, and he assured me that scratchers are indeed given to a natural four, a straight flush, OR a Royal Flush. So there!

Here's my new insights for the 3 MSS VP games in my OP: JoB 9/6, DB 9/7, and DB 10/7.

I added 9 more coins to the payout for quads, Straight Flush (StFl) and Royal Flush (RF). I understand the minimum value is $2 or 8 coins. Other posters said to add at least 9 coins, which would very conservatively cover the potential of getting as many as 20,000 coins from a $5,000 scratcher - but admittedly, those situations are rare. My first quad ever with a scratcher paid me $3.00!

The Asst Dir Slots mentioned in passing that the jackpot $5,000 card is won about once every 2-3 months! He assured me he would remind all slot attendants about when scratcher cards are awarded, since it wasn't written down at the time I visited the MSS. I reminded the Asst Director that the current Rules & Regulations on the MSS website do not say anything about getting a scratcher card for a straight flush or Royal Flush, and he said he was aware of that.

Michael Shackleford aka The Wiz talks about . . . the very very very very very very very rare $5,000 (I have been assured that such cards DO get given out on occasion). The average value seems to be about $2.25, which adds 0.3-0.4% to .25 games; this is not a bad little bonus. Be warned, slot club points on the 10/7 DB games, as well as the other good games on those machines, are awarded at 1/3 the normal rate. (The usual amount is $1 coin-in per point, which you get if you play at the bar.

Here's an example of using the analyzer for games offering scratchers:



And the analyzer calculated:



I tabulated all 3 VP games to show the the improved ER% after adding 9 coins for quads, straight flush, and Royal Flush.


JoB 9/6 DB 9/7 DB 10/7
99.54 99.11 100.17
99.99 99.55 100.62
.45 .44 .55


Some WoV members said that your variance is lower and your BR will last longer playing JoB vs DB, but that in the "long run" (uh-oh! 3 million hands?) one will get "slightly better" outcomes playing DB.

Is there something else that should be said about playing JoB vs DB?

Question: if the ER for DB 10/7 is at 100.62% (even if you need $3 coin-in per point), why doesn't the MSS advertise this more aggressively? Is the slight increase in ER not that significant? Are there some issues and considerations I have overlooked? I'm thinking that any "free" advantage should be advertised, that's all.
Eat real food . . . and you won't need medicine (or a lot less!)
Romes
Romes 
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April 19th, 2017 at 1:37:31 PM permalink
Quote: LostWages

...Is there something else that should be said about playing JoB vs DB?

lol play JoB for now while VP is young and exciting to you. After some time you'll want to hit bigger hands more often, and DB/etc makes for bigger hands/pays every now and then (at the cost of 2 pair just pushing, etc). Thus DB/DDB/etc are games where you play for the higher payoffs specifically, which of course will bring more of a "feast or famine" variance if you hit or don't hit one of the bigger pays.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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April 19th, 2017 at 2:05:07 PM permalink
Quote: LostWages

10/7 is a much more difficult strategy to play. Some people pick it up fast, some people are never able to get it down. They may even know all the rules but it's easy to miss stuff as you are playing, especially with penalties and reverse penalties, holding 4 flushes over some 3 card RF's but not others, holding 3 flushes sometimes but not others. The list goes on.

Play a few hundred hands each on 9/6 and then on 10/7/5 with a VP trainer and see how you do.

Once some people start playing double bonus and other types of VP they tend to get bored playing regular JOB after that.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
RS
RS
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April 19th, 2017 at 3:31:52 PM permalink
Double Bonus (10/7 or 9/7) is incredibly difficult to master. Pretty much every hand has multiple exceptions. A,J,9,3,7 can be played as just about any combination from A only, AJ, A 3-flush, J 3-flush, AJx 3-flush, and 7-9-J SF. Change that 7 or 9 to a T and it's completely different process. Every handle is like a f***ed up algorithm or formula you gotta use to figure out what to do.

I just use JOB strategy whenever I play DB or DDB and figure it'll all work out. :-)

that last line is a joke
"should of played 'Go Fish' today ya peasant" -typoontrav
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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April 19th, 2017 at 5:48:32 PM permalink
I missed getting a card for a straight flush I got on the last trip. Didn't know it at the time either. Oh well.

Speaking of straight flushes on JoB, I had three today, two of them dealt! Q high in clubs and K high in spades.
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"

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