Strip's shameful video poker

Quote: FleaStiff

Okay, for someone like me who is math challenged... just how many hours of play would it take to really make a difference between 99.5 and 100.7? I mean sure there is a difference, but unless you sit there cramming money into the machine and hitting the red button faster than a trained monkey could do it, what difference will it make?

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Speed is a relative function. What really matters is that you will lose an amount on JOB roughly equivalent to what you would have won on FPDW, assuming you play both games well.

A modest speed would be 400 hands an hour. This equates to, at .25 denominations, $500 coin-in/hr. At JOB, you would expect to lose a little less than $2.50/hr. At FPDW, you would expect to win about $3.50/hr. So the difference between the two games, at that speed, would be $6/hr. For the quarter player, this would be in the neighborhood of a $100 difference over a long weekend. Not trivial.

Quote: NicksGamingStuff

Just out of curiosity, where did the phrase Not so ugly deuces come from? Isn't it just a short pay version of deuces wild?

Skip Hughes coined it, in a double play on words that deuces are often referred to as "ducks". There were many short-pay versions of Deuces Wild that were collectively called "Ugly Ducks"; those games had paytables returning as low as 94%. The 16-10-4-4 version of Deuces Wild turned out to return 99.73% with optimal play, however, and with slot club benefits, could often be played as a positive EV game. Many casinos offered (and still offer) NSUD but not FPDW, such as South Point, Peppermill in Reno, etc., and have generous slot clubs that make playing NSUD there still worthwhile.

Quote: mkl654321

For the quarter player, this would be in the neighborhood of a $100 difference over a long weekend. Not trivial.

Well, the quarter player is really playing 1.25 per "pull" of the one arm. In reality of course its per slap of the Red Button.

$100.00. Agreed, its not trivial. Nor are the free drinks trivial. They refresh and keep the player attentive to proper strategy. The amount while not trivial is to be viewed in terms of relationship to bankroll, relationship to cost of airfare, rooms and meals. And of course in relation to time.

If one machine is a 2.50 expected loss and another machine is an expected 3.50 win then there is a significant difference even if this is eroded by tips, fatigue, other gambling obligations due to companions, etc.

I should start looking into this Video Poker thing. After all, it really doesn't matter if I have the exact opposite of a Poker Face now does it. I'm playing against a Random Number Generator that can't see the expression on my face. I won't be trying to bluff anyone even though the game is named Poker. Guess I better figure out this Two Pair versus Royal Flush stuff!

Quote: FleaStiff

$100.00. Agreed, its not trivial. Nor are the free drinks trivial. They refresh and keep the player attentive to proper strategy. The amount while not trivial is to be viewed in terms of relationship to bankroll, relationship to cost of airfare, rooms and meals. And of course in relation to time.

The other factor that has to be considered is how your play will be rewarded. Two casinos I have played at heavily in recent years illustrate. The Palms has the best .25 video poker in town, and a very good slot club: the total EV of their best games approaches 101%. However, they send out absolutely zippo in terms of room offers (or anything else) to players who only play those games. The South Point's best games have usually been 99.73% NSUD, with a .3% cash rebate slot club. They also send out excellent room/food offers.

I recently got my usual quarterly offer from South Point: 2 free nights, $50 in slot/VP play, and a $50 food credit. I have received my usual nothing from the Palms: an "offer" to stay two nights at the "special" rate of $149 (woo bloody hoo). Assuming the offers had been generated from my last trip, which involved about 20 hours of quarter play at each casino, I would have made about $140 at the Palms, and pretty much nothing at the South Point, on average--but I actually netted MORE value from the South Point, since the offer could be conservatively valued at $200.

I like to play JOB mostly in Vegas. I find I get better offers from places than playing the NSUD or FPDW. The Palms still sends me very attractive offers, and I used one last June. At home, I like to play NSUD because it has the best return and I'm not worried about generating room comps.

Quote: mkl654321

--but I actually netted MORE value from the South Point, since the offer could be conservatively valued at $200.

Strange. I've heard that South Point is a Sweat The Money, Boot Out The Card Counter, Offer Diddly Squat at Craps type place. If they eject low level card counters and offer only 2x at craps, why are they generous to VP players?

Quote: FleaStiff

Strange. I've heard that South Point is a Sweat The Money, Boot Out The Card Counter, Offer Diddly Squat at Craps type place. If they eject low level card counters and offer only 2x at craps, why are they generous to VP players?

Because they are located smack dab in the middle of a huge and growing (at least until recently) residential district. Vegas locals like games with low house edges, and they like to have their play tracked precisely so they can get free play and food comps. Video poker does all of those things. Furthermore, for frequent players, video poker offers more variety than table games.

It all comes down to a praqmatic marketing decision. They have no "captive audience", the way the Strip does. They have to give people incentives to come back, as well as to go there in the first place. They do that with good promotions, a generous slot club, and the highest cash back in town.

If you think that is bad... The only casino that I can drive to of course is an indian casino, but the best pay table they have is 6-5 Jacks or Better :( And on top of that, they only have a couple dozen game kings that allow nickels, and they are always tied up by keno players!!! I would really really hate to make a trip to Vegas some day just to find out that I am still stuck with 6-5 Jacks or Better :P

Quote: FleaStiff

Okay, for someone like me who is math challenged... just how many hours of play would it take to really make a difference between 99.5 and 100.7? I mean sure there is a difference, but unless you sit there cramming money into the machine and hitting the red button faster than a trained monkey could do it, what difference will it make?

Funny... where did I hear that before? Oh, I know... Rob Singer!

Quote: AlanMendelson

Funny... where did I hear that before? Oh, I know... XXXXXXXXX!

You idiot! Don't you know if you say his name -- like Voldemort -- you grant him permission to visit the inside of your head and torment you to your Martingale-esque death?