EV+ games in Budapest(and outside USA)

To this day, I visited few casinos around the world: Barcelona(was terrible, I will explain soon), Niagra(which is "vegas style"), chamonix(super small), budapest, and recently vegas.
I am almost sure that I saw few full pay games in some of the European casinos, and maybe even ev+ games!
For example, in Budapest I saw a games which looks like a Full pay decues wild(and also JOB)! The denomination was very strange: about 0.2$ for one coin, but 30$ for 5 coins(and full pay)! I could not afford myself to play the full pay... They also had the same thing in euro "coins"(they have diffrent machines for each currency), I think it was 0.5 euro for 1 coins and 25 euro for 5 coins but I am not sure.
I think I saw few strange(maybe ev+ maybe not, but very unusual) in Barcelona, but it was 5 years ago and I did not enjoy that casino so I do not remember.
Is that game "fair" like vegas? Why they give positive games with such high denomination? Maybe it is not 100% random? It seems to play "normally" for me on 1 coin.

Did anyone every see an EV+ Video poker or even a full pay JOB outside united states? Especially in Europe.

I heard a GWAE show a while back where somebody found a 110%+ game in Russia or something. Turns out it was like a type 2 game, but worse because the machines were gaffed in a bad way. I'm not sure of the specifics but I'd check the gaming laws and regulations to see if those machines are truly random.

I did not play 5 coins(I cannot play 30$ per hand), but with 1 coins it seemed to work normally.
Never got my discarded cards back, and I got regular ammount of meduim-good hands like straight flush and 4 of a kind. The paytable looks excatly like the regular(now rare) full pay deuces wild.
So, even if the game is "type 2", they successfully mask it to look like "type 3". But in Barcelona in contrast, I lost frequently, maybe its bad luck but it looked slightly suspicious.
*I do not what GWAE means...".

+EV games in foreign countries are a gamble in themselves... When it comes to machines. If you have something like a +EV Blackjack game, you can tell that just by the rules (though I might watch a shoe or two to make sure all the cards are there =P). When it comes to machines, you might run in to the issue of Class II vs Class III where the game may or may not be truly 'random'.

All I can say is, when you come across something that great, you should have resources at your disposal to check the house edge / player edge and then attempt to find out more info as needed. In your situation, I would plug in the top level pay table to the Wizards Video Poker Calculator and see what the house edge is "IF" the game is truly random. You said the top bet was $30... Usually at $5 games the 5 coin bet is $25. Yes, I know I'm using the dollar symbol but follow along as that could be one difference. Back in my early VP days I was 'almost' tricked by some AMAZING pay tables that looked like DOUBLE pay! Then when I went to play the game I saw "Bet 10 coins" and realized the game was actually pretty terrible because I then found the 5 coin column and ran those numbers. So the $30 (euro) bet could be "6" coins for that "full pay" pay table... and thus ruin the game.

The best you can do is get the "for sure" 5 coin pay table, and how much you have to bet. Then convert (if necessary) to dollars for the Wizards Calculator, and plug and chug. If you still come up with a +EV game, then you just have to figure out if it's "random" or "gaffed." If it's a trustworthy establishment (one of the bigger named places somewhere) then perhaps you did in fact find a great play. If you're in the back room of a regular bar out in on the country side, well, then I might let that one go. At the end of the day, you need to check the HE, then verify what you can with what Gaming Commission you can before dumping tons and tons of money on a play you're not SURE is +EV or not.

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There's a radio show called Gambling With An Edge (GWAE) where hosts Bob Dancer (world renowned video poker expert) and Richard Munchkin (world renowned advantage player) discuss different topics related to gambling... Such as video poker, blackjack, sports betting, and all kinds of topics. They often have experienced/expert guests come on the show to share their stories/experiences and to discuss the different gambling related topics.

You can find all the shows, and a lot more, at http://www.gamblingwithanedge.com/

Quote: lavifighter

To this day, I visited few casinos around the world: Barcelona(was terrible, I will explain soon), Niagra(which is "vegas style"), chamonix(super small), budapest, and recently vegas.
I am almost sure that I saw few full pay games in some of the European casinos, and maybe even ev+ games!
For example, in Budapest I saw a games which looks like a Full pay decues wild(and also JOB)! The denomination was very strange: about 0.2$ for one coin, but 30$ for 5 coins(and full pay)! I could not afford myself to play the full pay... They also had the same thing in euro "coins"(they have diffrent machines for each currency), I think it was 0.5 euro for 1 coins and 25 euro for 5 coins but I am not sure.
I think I saw few strange(maybe ev+ maybe not, but very unusual) in Barcelona, but it was 5 years ago and I did not enjoy that casino so I do not remember.
Is that game "fair" like vegas? Why they give positive games with such high denomination? Maybe it is not 100% random? It seems to play "normally" for me on 1 coin.

Did anyone every see an EV+ Video poker or even a full pay JOB outside united states? Especially in Europe.

On 2 occasions you mentioned it "seemed normal"

Whatever that means but barring anything other than some special leprechaun feature seemingly normal isn't good enough. Even Vegas VP seems anything but normal sometimes.

I have practiced full pay decues wild(and JOB) on wizard of odds site.
I know, this games are very volatile, but still my winnings seems to be "normal": 3 of a kind in about half of the hands, 4 of a kind in about 1 to 15 hands and etc.

Of course is is not a "proof", but if its realy a "type 2" machine with a disguised, this disguise is really good and doesn't look "rigged" at all.

I know to recgonzie full pay decues wild(and JOB) and it was clearly full pay, if I look only on the pay tables. I re-checked on the wizard of odds site while I was there just to be sure.
Not any "for 1" issue.
The top bet was 30$, but the minimum was 0.2$, on the same machine! Without options to choose. 5 coins should be 1$ if 1 coin is 0.2, but it strangely became 30$...
When I won 4 of a kind on the 1 coin bet, I got odds of 5.... like it should be.

I never bet "tons of money", when I am aboard(in my country gambling is illegal) I am doing this for fun, with low bankroll and small bets as possible(only if the rules are normal, not 6-5 JOB...).

Quote: lavifighter

I have practiced full pay decues wild(and JOB) on wizard of odds site.
I know, this games are very volatile, but still my winnings seems to be "normal": 3 of a kind in about half of the hands, 4 of a kind in about 1 to 15 hands and etc.

Of course is is not a "proof", but if its realy a "type 2" machine with a disguised, this disguise is really good and doesn't look "rigged" at all.

Well then it's rigged in your favor. 3oak should be about 28% of the time not 50%.

1 to 15 hands is definitely over performing.

IMO they probably don't have fair FPDW where you can bet $30 a pop. Because at that rate a measly 650 hands an hour would be worth over $150 an hr. That's not even including promo's, drawings, mail, FP, tournament invites, comps or whatever it is they may offer. It's possible, but unlikely. Can you post up some pictures please perhaps it will give us a better understanding.

How many machines?
Is it IGT or a reputable game manufacture?

Sorry, but I do not have picture and do not rembmber the manufacturer. The rules are in English, and look almost like the VP in vegas.
However I can say there are 4-5 machines, near the entrance, Hungarian currency. In the rear of the casino there are more 2-3 machines with European currency. They are multi-game machines, including full pat JOB and DW and even keno(don't know the odds) and slots. All 1-play, "high" machines(not slant-top or bar and etc).

The casino is Sofitel Casino in Budapest. If anyone manages to be there for any reason. please check and confirm!

Quote: lavifighter

Sorry, but I do not have picture and do not rembmber the manufacturer. The rules are in English, and look almost like the VP in vegas.
However I can say there are 4-5 machines, near the entrance, Hungarian currency. In the rear of the casino there are more 2-3 machines with European currency. They are multi-game machines, including full pat JOB and DW and even keno(don't know the odds) and slots. All 1-play, "high" machines(not slant-top or bar and etc).

The casino is Sofitel Casino in Budapest. If anyone manages to be there for any reason. please check and confirm!

Awhile back there were some threads on Video Poker machines in Germany, and some analysis by the Wizard. They were not class III, and sort of class II, where they adjust the return to keep it at a certain level. I suggest finding that thread and reading it. I suspect it's the same type of machine.

I am not an expert, but when I visited vegas, the machines look pretty similar, and not like that German machine.
The odds also seemed to be "correct" and not "class 2": discraded cards did not came back.

Maybe this is rigged by any legal method, but it is not a "bingo"(I have read that class 2 are bingo and only looks liks VP).
Maybe rigged only for 5 coins(because 1 coin, even full pay, is "only" 99.5%).