100% VP: If you dont hit that Royal, then it's a 96% game?

Double Joker wild with progressive= $2100 @ .25 denom
https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/a-1-b-61-c-1-d-0-d-1-d-2-d-3-d-4-d-5-d-8-d-25-d-50-d-100-d-1700/

100% return but the HUGE Royal makes up 3.9%.
so I if I don't hit the Royal, it's like I'm playing a 96.1% game?


edit1:
9/6 JoB = 99.5% with the Royal worth 2%
so 97.5% w/o the Royal.

This would be a better game than the above 100% Double Joker?

edit2:
ok, I forgot about variance.
var = 74 for the 100% Joker Poker
var = 20 for 99.5% 9/5 JoB

so 100% Double Joker is better if you have the bankroll/time to ride out the variance, else 9/6 JoB?

It's a 100% (presumably) game whether you happen to hit a royal or not.

Quote: 100xOdds

Double Joker wild with progressive= $2100 @ .25 denom
https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/a-1-b-61-c-1-d-0-d-1-d-2-d-3-d-4-d-5-d-8-d-25-d-50-d-100-d-1700/

100% return but the HUGE Royal makes up 3.9%.
so I if I don't hit the Royal, it's like I'm playing a 96.1% game?

Yes it's like your playing that until you spike a RF but if you can afford it you shouldn't let that deter you. Hopefully you can earn some comps along the way. Good luck just hit it quickly and then you don't have to worry about it.

Quote: AxelWolf

Yes it's like your playing that until you spike a RF but if you can afford it you shouldn't let that deter you. Hopefully you can earn some comps along the way. Good luck just hit it quickly and then you don't have to worry about it.

For some of us who don't ordinarily care to play those contraptions, this IS our comp. Or the step needed to convert some forms of comps & casino kickback promos into something useful. Sometimes it is necessary for infrequent playing VP hater/dunces (*ahem* me) to launder some 'free play' through them to turn casino comps into actual spendable money.

And I know a guy (a fellow known as DrawingDead in some disreputable circles) who manages to consistently lose about 10-15% of the supposed face value of his 'free play' when doing this. So as I understand it, apparently at least 4% or so can be chalked up to never coming close to the sample size needed to smooth out the high variance? So that leaves only about 8-10% to attribute to my, er, make that "his" incompetence at playing these Satanic devices. Well fine, I feel so much better now.

In the long run we are all Dead.

Not usually a good way of looking at it. Imagine a blackjack game where basic strategy returned 100%. It would be silly to say it's a 92% if you aren't dealt a blackjack.

No matter what you are dealt that video poker game has over 100% return to whatever player uses optimal strategy. You could put in $20 everyday and play until it's either all gone or you hit the jackpot. Just because you lose everything every day for months doesn't mean you've been playing a 0% game.

Quote: 100xOdds

so 100% Double Joker is better if you have the bankroll/time to ride out the variance, else 9/6 JoB?

I see it the other way. Because I'm either unable or unwilling to put it long hours at casino games, there is no riding out anything. Find anything with +EV, play it and move on.

This the bank of six machines at Caesars Atlantic City, which has a base return of 99.91% and a 0.25% RF meter.

I miss the old bank of machines, back in the day when the Royal Flush jackpot reset at $2,500 and occasionally topped $4,000, but these six machines are still +EV 24/7.

Did you know, 100xOdds, there is another advantage play on these six machines. No, not the $4-5/hr "Bounceback" or "Return Rewards". No, not the 0.1% in earned Tier/Reward Credits. No, not the 3X+ "Mystery" Reward Credit multiplier on Thursdays. Can you figure it out?

Quote: AxelWolf

spike a RF ...
... Good luck just hit it quickly and then you don't have to worry about it.

like this?
http://i.imgur.com/KoxhEkR.jpg
:)

Quote: 100xOdds

like this?
http://i.imgur.com/KoxhEkR.jpg
:)

Very nice, that is a great quarter royal.

Quote: DrawingDead

For some of us who don't ordinarily care to play those contraptions, this IS our comp. Or the step needed to convert some forms of comps & casino kickback promos into something useful. Sometimes it is necessary for infrequent playing VP hater/dunces (*ahem* me) to launder some 'free play' through them to turn casino comps into actual spendable money.

And I know a guy (a fellow known as DrawingDead in some disreputable circles) who manages to consistently lose about 10-15% of the supposed face value of his 'free play' when doing this. So as I understand it, apparently at least 4% or so can be chalked up to never coming close to the sample size needed to smooth out the high variance? So that leaves only about 8-10% to attribute to my, er, make that "his" incompetence at playing these Satanic devices. Well fine, I feel so much better now.

In the long run we are all Dead.

Your consistently losing 10 to 15 % playing just free play??? Hmmm.

Are you just cycling it once? How often do you get free play? What games are you playing it on?

You should win sometimes as well. Let's pretend you have $100 in free play and you play it on $1 8/5 bonus poker cycling it one time, occasionally you should hit a full house and a flush or str8 (you should most certainly have more than $100 if that happens) just hitting a 4 of a kind once in a while will put you way over EV.

If you are getting free play often enough, and im not talking frequently, if you are always losing there's a a problem..I guess there could be the problem of the unluckiest man in the world.

I'll assume you have had free play at least 30 difrent times.

I'm sure someone can do a sim and figure out how often you should be above and below expectation. And figure out just how bad you are running.

It would seem that he spiked that Royal, so now he has to be way above EV on that particular game. That's exactly why if you can afford it, you should not hesitate if it's something you are interested in.

Again ONLY IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO PLAY. If you actually need the money to pay your rent or whatever...You willprobably lose your ass.

We recently had $5000 free play and on 99.7% NSUD we got back 86% ($4300). That was only 1000 hands on $1 denom. It can certainly happen. I set the line at 97% return and my partner snap took the under. Cost me an extra $1....

I figured we wouldn't hit deuces or a natural royal so 97 sounded good to me, boy was that wrong. Should have added in not hitting any wild royals and just one 5oak.

Quote: BTLWI

We recently had $5000 free play and on 99.7% NSUD we got back 86% ($4300). That was only 1000 hands on $1 denom. It can certainly happen. I set the line at 97% return and my partner snap took the under. Cost me an extra $1....

I figured we wouldn't hit deuces or a natural royal so 97 sounded good to me, boy was that wrong. Should have added in not hitting any wild royals and just one 5oak.

That's normal on a high variance game.

Quote: BTLWI

We recently had $5000 free play and on 99.7% NSUD we got back 86% ($4300). That was only 1000 hands on $1 denom. It can certainly happen. I set the line at 97% return and my partner snap took the under. Cost me an extra $1....

I figured we wouldn't hit deuces or a natural royal so 97 sounded good to me, boy was that wrong. Should have added in not hitting any wild royals and just one 5oak.

I've had 80% return on $5k coin-in on $1 dstp (9/5 JoB) MANY times. :(
losing $1000 for 500 tier credits on a 99% machine. sigh

happens at least once per trip

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

That's normal on a high variance game.

thought deuces wild was only slightly higher in variance than JoB?
var =25 vs 20

note:
in my example above, dstp is 2.5x the variance of the underlying machine.
so for dstp (9/5 Job), var = 50, which is worse than regular ddb

regular ddb = 40
dstp (9/5 ddb): var= 100 (yike!)

regular triple double bonus = 90
dstp (9/6 tdb) = HEART medication needed...