1 Coin vs 5 Coin Full Pay JoB Strategy

The perfect play analysis for 1 Coin Full Pay JoB and 5 Coin Full Pay JoB have different hand probabilities, I am assuming this is because they have different strategies right ? Its tricky comparing the two strategies but using the Wizard of Odd's calculator it seems like they have the same basic strategy and just differ based on exceptions to the basic strategy ? Also I am not sure how difficult this is to figure out, but what would be the cost of using 5 Coin optimal strategy if you are only playing 1 coin ? (if not the exact number at least a ball park figure).

Quote: DiscreteMaths2

The perfect play analysis for 1 Coin Full Pay JoB and 5 Coin Full Pay JoB have different hand probabilities, I am assuming this is because they have different strategies right ? Its tricky comparing the two strategies but using the Wizard of Odd's calculator it seems like they have the same basic strategy and just differ based on exceptions to the basic strategy ? Also I am not sure how difficult this is to figure out, but what would be the cost of using 5 Coin optimal strategy if you are only playing 1 coin ? (if not the exact number at least a ball park figure).

Why would you want to use 5 coin strategy playing 1 coin? There's free programs you can use to learn the 1 coin strategy. Or you can just lower the RF payout on 5 coins. It's really only going to affect a few holds that involve RF draws like Q 10 ss (That's just a guess )So we are talking very little time to learn it right, less time than talking about it.

I have done the opposite and avoided holding K10 and various other close hands with 5 coins to avoid a RF. IE. I Played at a bar where 5% + was kinda expected.

Quote: AxelWolf

Why would you want to use 5 coin strategy playing 1 coin? There's free programs you can use to learn the 1 coin strategy. Or you can just lower the RF payout on 5 coins. It's really only going to affect a few holds that involve RF draws like Q 10 ss (That's just a guess )So we are talking very little time to learn it right, less time than talking about it.

I have done the opposite and avoided holding K10 and various other close hands with 5 coins to avoid a RF. IE. I Played at a bar where 5% + was kinda expected.

It's not that I want to play 5 coin strat playing only 1 coin, I just want to know the differences. Here are some examples but not all of them: http://www.americancasinoguide.com/video-poker/less-than-max-coin-bets-change-video-poker-strategy.html

You'll get even more confused when you find a machine where the royal pays go 500/1000/1500/2000/2500.

Assuming a 250-for-1 on the 1-coin game, using a 5-coin strategy (99.54% return) on a 1-coin game (opt. strat on 1-coin is 98.37% return)......

Your 1-coin game with 9/6 strategy returns 0.98182199627 (or 98.18%).

click


basically it's sum of # of occurences per hand times the payout and divided all by the total combinations of hands. the # of occurences or w/e is static to a strategy. but if you use the same strategy on a different paytable, just change the payout. so where it says 250 (RF payout), change it to 800 and you'll get the regular 9/6 return. or 500 and you'll get the 500/1000/1500/2000/2500 paytable return.

Quote: RS

Assuming a 250-for-1 on the 1-coin game, using a 5-coin strategy (99.54% return) on a 1-coin game (opt. strat on 1-coin is 98.37% return)......

Your 1-coin game with 9/6 strategy returns 0.98182199627 (or 98.18%).

click


basically it's sum of # of occurences per hand times the payout and divided all by the total combinations of hands. the # of occurences or w/e is static to a strategy. but if you use the same strategy on a different paytable, just change the payout. so where it says 250 (RF payout), change it to 800 and you'll get the regular 9/6 return. or 500 and you'll get the 500/1000/1500/2000/2500 paytable return.

Thank you for the explanation, totally makes sense now.

Quote: DiscreteMaths2

It's not that I want to play 5 coin strat playing only 1 coin, I just want to know the differences. Here are some examples but not all of them: http://www.americancasinoguide.com/video-poker/less-than-max-coin-bets-change-video-poker-strategy.html

I totally understanding why someone would want to play 1 coin on $1 9/6 apposed to 5 coins on 6/5 .25

I assumed as long as you weren't giving much you would take the lazy/easy way and just play the published 9/6 5 coin strategy.

Again I think you should get a free VP program and start putting in hands and looking at the differences. It will probably stick with you and make it easier to remember, especially if you remember the EV for certain hands. You can even cut out imputing some hands because it's obvious at that point. For instance if it tells you to hold Q over 10 Q SS then you automatically know the k will beat K 10 ss. that's just an example you might still hold Q 10 SS. That's something I would imput. J 10 SS I would bet yes.

If you PM me ill link you to a free program that has a bunch of good features. It's got a few bugs, but hey it's free. AAMOF I just got new computer(the dam G on the F-ing keyboard is lame, what a pain in the ass) so I have to download it myself anyways.

Quote: AxelWolf

I Played at a bar where 5% + was kinda expected.

That's kinda steep.

Quote: bobbartop

That's kinda steep.

Wait a 5% loss or 5% win?!

Quote: RS

Wait a 5% loss or 5% win?!

I think he meant a 5% tip.

Quote: DRich

I think he meant a 5% tip.

Correct.

I remember @ the Brewery I gave 10% on Royals min $25 even if I didn't hit anything, 50% of the drawings and tournaments. Mind you I got unlimited free food anytime I wanted and they had a big menu with excellent food. 4 finger drinks premium if requested. All fun female Bartenders and waitresses most of them hot.

At least for 9/6 Jacks, that strategy gets a bit weird at 1 coin. Hands like AHx suited become correct. "Why does the calculator tell me to hold AQ8 suited instead of AQ suited?" That is probably one of my most answered questions on various forums. It tends to come up once or twice a year.

Quote: AxelWolf

I remember @ the Brewery

That rings a bell. Is that the place on Sunset in Henderson, with the Gamblers Bonus system? I haven't been there in years. Is it closed now or did anyone buy that out? Or am I thinking of something else?

Quote: bobbartop

That rings a bell. Is that the place on Sunset in Henderson, with the Gamblers Bonus system? I haven't been there in years. Is it closed now or did anyone buy that out? Or am I thinking of something else?

That's the place.

They had good business and some serious gamblers with money. Oftentimes There was a list to get on machines during peak times.

They had great pizza (deep dish and regular) and really good chicken marsala.

I'm not sure how long the promo lasted, but it was at least a solid year I believe.

With a mostly female crew ( Only the cooks were male) The place was a soap opera deserving of its own reality show. It got fairly wild at times especially on graveyard.

One night just after I left. My dad stayed behind to shoot some pool balls off the table when 3 men came in with ski masks, two of them with handguns and one with a shotgun and robbed the place. The guy with the shotgun focused on my dad after my dad dropped his wallet under the pool table. This was the 3 time I just happened to miss a bar robbery.

Eventually they changed the promotion to barely playable. Soon after they closed down. From my understanding the owner had health issues and business started trailing off soon after they ended the promotion and changed some pays. It was shut down, then it was open again, I'm not sure if they have something there now.

I noticed they changed the name of the bar just down the street from Nicky Lee's to something else.

Quote: AxelWolf

This was the 3 time I just happened to miss a bar robbery.

Quite the coincidence, eh? ;)

Quote: RS

Quite the coincidence, eh? ;)

Are you insinuating something here or just poking fun at a friend? Not everyone would know the answer.
I knew someone was guilty all along (joke)
Didn't pull any bullets out of his ass did they? (Joke#2)
Pls don't tell me he offered to sell blood to save the victims. (joke#3)

Quote: AxelWolf

That's the place.

Is that you in the window?

I just found this on my hard drive, from I think 2011. Gosh, five years ago. Time flies, even when you're not having fun.

That's pretty scary about the robbery. Seems like a lot of crime in Vegas. I watch the news from Vegas even though I'm in California and there's stuff happening like that every day in Vegas. I don't think it was like that when the Mob ran things.

Quote: bobbartop

Is that you in the window?

I just found this on my hard drive, from I think 2011. Gosh, five years ago. Time flies, even when you're not having fun.

That's pretty scary about the robbery. Seems like a lot of crime in Vegas. I watch the news from Vegas even though I'm in California and there's stuff happening like that every day in Vegas. I don't think it was like that when the Mob ran things.

I don't know how bad the crime is compared to other places with the same population. I assume the fact that it's a 24/7 gambling town filled with everything you can imagine there would have to be some crime and crazy sh*t that goes on. You have to take "the good" with the bad. There's no place like Vegas.

Since the news feeds on sensationalizing crime and stuff I think it seems worst than it is.
I think it's relatively safe considering it's basically a 24/7 party. Where else can you go downtown and see a rock concert frequently and enjoy all the crazy stuff going on?


Ask guys like Djatc, RS, Maxpen, Mike, Drich and others who live here. I don't think they have really had any problems and feel fairly safe.

There was a time in the late 90's where bars were being targeted because they were easy prey with lots of cash on hand. Nowadays they have a machine or something that spits out money when you cash out.

Most of the violence is people confronting one another. If you mind your own business and avoid confrontation there is minimal problems in Vegas. There was a shooting that I just missed down the street from Binions parking garage this weekend. It was the result of 4 people arguing with a couple of guys and one of the guys went to his car's trunk and opened fire injuring all 4. Just another day in Vegas.
One time at Sunset Station I was playing in the pit while the sports book got robbed. Didn't even know it happened until the perp was gone. Think he got shot over at the Stratosphere later in the week.

Quote: AxelWolf

I don't know how bad the crime is compared to other places with the same population.

We only have 34 prisons in California. Nope, no crime here.

Quote: MaxPen

Most of the violence is people confronting one another. If you mind your own business and avoid confrontation there is minimal problems in Vegas.

Sounds right, but the occasional stories about home invasions scares the crap out of me. No place is immune. I blame it on rap "music".

I once saw a security guard chasing a duck (or perhaps a swan?) at the extended stay hotel thing near the hard rock (I lived there for a month when I first moved to LV). Turns out one of the guys living there went to the same dealer school I went to....we decided to carpool one day, that was a mistake (nothing bad happened). Never again, though. I get in his car and he's got the windows all the way up, fan on max (not AC, just pushing air around), with a cigarette in hand....I don't think he ever stopped smoking the entire ride. He'd just ash wherever in his car he wanted to, as if we were in a casino or something, just ash on the ground in his car....like, who does that??

Anyway, turns out he's got a warrant for his arrest or some sh*t in one of those Midwest states (like Oklahoma or Nebraska) for cooking/selling/distributing meth. Meanwhile, he's telling me how some university that I'd heard of (maybe OU?) was trying to get him to teach a course on gaming....ya know, a high level course you'd probably take at UNLV if you were in the gaming / casino-manager-type field. None of it made any sense....especially since he didn't know a thing about gambling (one day at school, he just wanted to learn blackjack....not how to deal blackjack, just learn how it's played, basic strategy, all that stuff)....I don't think he's gambled a day in his life. Oh yeah, he also told me if you ever get addicted to meth or cocaine and wanna quit, all you gotta do is take sweet 'n' low sugar packets (like the ones you'd find at a restaurant like Denny's), maybe 2 or 3 of them, and treat it like actual meth -- mix some water with it, heat it up, put it in a syringe, then inject it into your arm (or w/e the process is for injecting meth)....he said you get REAL F*CKED UP for a while then all the cravings stop...cuz that's what he apparently did. Who knew injecting sugar into your bloodstream was a way to cure meth/cocaine addiction? Now you know.

Quote: RS

Oh yeah, he also told me if you ever get addicted to meth or cocaine and wanna quit, all you gotta do is take sweet 'n' low sugar packets (like the ones you'd find at a restaurant like Denny's), maybe 2 or 3 of them, and treat it like actual meth -- mix some water with it, heat it up, put it in a syringe, then inject it into your arm (or w/e the process is for injecting meth)....he said you get REAL F*CKED UP for a while then all the cravings stop...cuz that's what he apparently did. Who knew injecting sugar into your bloodstream was a way to cure meth/cocaine addiction? Now you know.

I heard it kills ants.

Quote: RS

I once saw a security guard chasing a duck (or perhaps a swan?) at the extended stay hotel thing near the hard rock (I lived there for a month when I first moved to LV).

That place has cool waterfowl. They live in the drainage channel. I walk through there from HR to the Strip. It was a useful cutthrough to the Tuscany too, until they closed the pedestrian gate. (Damn them!)

Quote: RS

I once saw a security guard chasing a duck (or perhaps a swan?) at the extended stay hotel thing near the hard rock (I lived there for a month when I first moved to LV). Turns out one of the guys living there went to the same dealer school I went to....we decided to carpool one day, that was a mistake (nothing bad happened). Never again, though. I get in his car and he's got the windows all the way up, fan on max (not AC, just pushing air around), with a cigarette in hand....I don't think he ever stopped smoking the entire ride. He'd just ash wherever in his car he wanted to, as if we were in a casino or something, just ash on the ground in his car....like, who does that??

Anyway, turns out he's got a warrant for his arrest or some sh*t in one of those Midwest states (like Oklahoma or Nebraska) for cooking/selling/distributing meth. Meanwhile, he's telling me how some university that I'd heard of (maybe OU?) was trying to get him to teach a course on gaming....ya know, a high level course you'd probably take at UNLV if you were in the gaming / casino-manager-type field. None of it made any sense....especially since he didn't know a thing about gambling (one day at school, he just wanted to learn blackjack....not how to deal blackjack, just learn how it's played, basic strategy, all that stuff)....I don't think he's gambled a day in his life. Oh yeah, he also told me if you ever get addicted to meth or cocaine and wanna quit, all you gotta do is take sweet 'n' low sugar packets (like the ones you'd find at a restaurant like Denny's), maybe 2 or 3 of them, and treat it like actual meth -- mix some water with it, heat it up, put it in a syringe, then inject it into your arm (or w/e the process is for injecting meth)....he said you get REAL F*CKED UP for a while then all the cravings stop...cuz that's what he apparently did. Who knew injecting sugar into your bloodstream was a way to cure meth/cocaine addiction? Now you know.

Sounds like a cool dude