The Pioneer Hustler's Convention April/May 2002
So we were all hanging out waiting for the Pioneer to make a move. It kept getting closer to biker weekend and the only three days in the year I couldn't get a comped room, and wasn't about to pay $500 a night for those three days. They started installing the system on the Tuesday before biker weekend. I was gonna have to leave town Thursday and come back Sunday. I was afraid that if there was any money to be made it would be in the first couple of days, then kaput.
The first thing they did was install new card readers. When you put your card in and started playing, the border of the card reader turned green. When you stopped playing it turned red. I came back in Wednesday morning and the technicians were somehow linking about 25 machines together. Here and there we were asking the techs what the system was gonna do. This is what we found out: Every so often the card readers would start flashing DOUBLE TIME! And for one minute certain hands were going to pay double. There would be no waiting to get paid by an attendant. The credits would rack up on the machine. "But you gotta be playing to qualify for the double time. That's the reason the card readers turn green and red." one tech said.
The first bank to go up was a 9/7 Double Bonus five-way progressive. A tech showed up with a sign and placed it on top of the bank. It said "IN DOUBLE TIME ALL PAYS FROM 20 TO 50 COINS PAY DOUBLE."
We were all thinking "Wow! The straight, the flush, and the full house are all gonna pay double!" One hustler went to his room and ran it on Winpoker. It came up 130%. The techs moved out of the way and we dove in. The first thing on my mind was how long does that card reader stay green after you play a hand. I hit the deal button, played the hand then timed the card reader. Twelve seconds before it turned red. So I would have to play a hand about every 11 seconds to keep the machine qualified for double time. The next thing I wanted to know was did it take a max bet to keep the machine qualified. I smacked the one coin button and the card reader turned green. Ooooooh, baby! You only have to bet one coin every 11 seconds to keep the machine qualified. Then the entire bank kicked into double time. We played like a bat out of hell max betting for one minute trying to make straights, flushes, and full houses. Then back to betting one coin every 11 seconds. The double times were coming about every 7 or 8 minutes.
We got to thinking about what was creating the double times. There were only 4 of us hustlers on the 9/7 bank. And we weren't giving much action between the lights. But we seen the slot techs linking all the machines in that area together. We looked around at the ploppies around us. They were the ones giving action between the double times. There had to be some kind of money pool. A percentage of the action was going into a money pool. And when so much action was given it kicked all those 25 machines into double time. It was the ploppies that were creating the double times. We confirmed it later that night when the action slowed down, and the double times slowed down too.
I got to play some the next day but had to clear out of Laughlin for biker weekend. I took the bus up to Vegas. I checked into the Golden Gate that night and played 10-20 holdem at the Horseshoe for the next couple of days.
more later....
Quote: speedycrapgood story Mike. maybe one day I will bring bottle of whiskey or may be a bottle of XO.
That's V.O, my friend. I'll be back at it tonight and tomorrow night. Then I have to dry out for the next road trip. Al talked me into taking a trip next Tuesday. I should do about $7000 for the two week trip minus about 20% in expenses. I don't need the money but my relatives need it badly.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI'm a little surprised that Mickey left town just because he couldn't get a room.
I could have imposed on some of my friends but I'm not that kind of guy.
Quote: mickeycrimmI could have imposed on some of my friends but I'm not that kind of guy.
I'm surprised you even need a room!
Don't get me wrong -- I've grown soft in my old age and I need a suite with room service, so I am the last person to judge. But you're the guy who rode the rails and lived to tell about it!
Actually, I'm surprised that 10 of you did not just all chip in $50 to get a room and take turns napping there.
"Oh, Christ! Why me Lord? Them damn bikers are messing with my life!" I mumbled to myself. It was Wednesday before I could get back into Laughlin. I wheeled my rollaway in the front door of the Pioneer and saw my crew doing the one coin/five coin thing at the Main Bar. I looked over at the 9/7 DB bank. There were no hustlers on it. I checked in, ran my rollaway up to the room, then headed down to the bar. The bar tops at the Main Bar were all dollar denom, mostly 9/6 Jacks wit a little 8/5 Bonus Poker thrown in.
"Where the hell you been?" Allen asked.
"I had a little delay getting back. Something about a patch war."
"I knew there was gonna be some s--- this year." Allen replied.
"What are we trying to hit here? Straight, flush, full house?
"No, full house, 4 of a kind, straight flush."
"That stretches things out, doesn't it?"
"Yeah, but it's still stronger than the quarter play. They got it tweaked down to where the double times don't come so fast. You should have been here before they changed it from straight, flush, full house."
"How strong is it?"
"116%"
"Allen, how the hell did you know the bikers were going to get ito it this year?"
Allen had an apartment on the hill across the River in Old Bullhead City. Down below, on the highway, was the Arizona Clearwater Motel. It was a daily/weekly/monthly. But everyone had to clear out of the hotel for biker weekend because the Hell's Angel's rented the whole hotel for the River Run and wouldn't let anyone else in. They had 24 hour sentries on every door. Allen could see everything going on down there.
"The Angels rode in wearing their patches this year. They never did that before. Laughlin is neutral territory. But not this year." Allen said.
The slot techs were putting more and more areas of the casino up on double time. More hustlers poured in. Everyone was staking out their territory. After several days my little crew, and myself, had very sore tailbones. The chairs were made out of frickin' oak. It was pretty funny. We would stand quite a bit of the time. And we looked like bent over old men walking to the restroom.
When ploppie action slowed down I would take trips to the River Bar to check the unlinked Flush Attacks and Maxx's for plays. On one trip I noticed a "well known in the hustler world" couple playing on a bank of quarter Game Kings (this is the couple that Axel was talking about). They were ex poker dealers. I started making more trips to the River Bar to try and get an inkling of what they were doing. Sometimes they would be playing 4-Card Keno, and at other times they would be playing video poker. Well, it's their gig, I thought. I leave them alone for now.
more later....
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI'm surprised you even need a room! Don't get me wrong -- I've grown soft in my old age and I need a suite with room service, so I am the last person to judge. But you're the guy who rode the rails and lived to tell about it! Actually, I'm surprised that 10 of you did not just all chip in $50 to get a room and take turns napping there.
Axiom, some of the proudest moments of my life are when I show the ladies the palms of my hands. They used to be vey hardened with callous's. Now they are softer than a babies behind. It's been that way for a lot of years now. I guess we could have cooked a deal for a room together. I did a lot of jungling up with other men when I was a street tramp. Thank God I don't have to do that anymore.
Quote: mickeycrimmAxiom, some of the proudest moments of my life are when I show the ladies the palms of my hands. They used to be vey hardened with callous's. Now they are softer than a babies behind. It's been that way for a lot of years now. I guess we could have cooked a deal for a room together. I did a lot of jungling up with other men when I was a street tramp. Thank God I don't have to do that anymore.
haha, yeah, I have had women comment that they can tell that I don't do physical labor because of my hands and feet being so soft.
Actually I was talking about a different couple (They knew Danny fairly well. Ill PM you.). They didn't really play to many different plays. I don't remember seeing them on the Double (not that they didn't play it)Quote: mickeycrimm(this is the couple that Axel was talking about).
However, I do know exactly who you are referring to (they made a few plays for me in Laughlin ) and can see why the confusion. I believe her name was Carol or something. His name started with J I think. This guy looked like a gruff character from a western movie, minus the hat. At first he was not to friendly.
I first meet them at Palace Station in the poker room 4-8 games while taking breaks from Flush Attack. Eventually they read Card Player article about Flush Attack and became competition right there at PS. It was mostly her who played, he was more interested in poker. Eventually he was mostly playing online poker in the hotel room @ the River side, after Vegas Flush attack got slow.
She played the same end Flush Attack machine for years with no heat, She would even have it to herself for weeks at a time, right after the often done security Flush Attack raids. She didn't catch heat because she 5 coins in between the Attack mode. She just played slowly and sneaky. She would load up the machine with credits. Then she would Feed in 5 coins but not draw the hand. Then she would continue to feed in coins 5 at a time and they would just drop into the tray. It looked as if she was just a 5 coin playing ploppy. When the bonus came on she quickly started using the credits to play, she must have made a fortune. I can only imagine her disappoint when they slowly took them out. The last time I seen them was in the mid 2000s.
Quote: AxelWolfActually I was talking about a different couple (They knew Danny fairly well. Ill PM you.). They didn't really play to many different plays. I don't remember seeing them on the Double (not that they didn't play it)
However, I do know exactly who you are referring to (they made a few plays for me in Laughlin ) and can see why the confusion. I believe her name was Carol or something. His name started with J I think. This guy looked like a gruff character from a western movie, minus the hat. At first he was not to friendly.
I first meet them at Palace Station in the poker room 4-8 games while taking breaks from Flush Attack. Eventually they read Card Player article about Flush Attack and became competition right there at PS. It was mostly her who played, he was more interested in poker. Eventually he was mostly playing online poker in the hotel room @ the River side, after Vegas Flush attack got slow.
She played the same end Flush Attack machine for years with no heat, She would even have it to herself for weeks at a time, right after the often done security Flush Attack raids. She didn't catch heat because she 5 coins in between the Attack mode. She just played slowly and sneaky. She would load up the machine with credits. Then she would Feed in 5 coins but not draw the hand. Then she would continue to feed in coins 5 at a time and they would just drop into the tray. It looked as if she was just a 5 coin playing ploppy. When the bonus came on she quickly started using the credits to play, she must have made a fortune. I can only imagine her disappoint when they slowly took them out. The last time I seen them was in the mid 2000s.
The Flush Attack bank at the Riverside was the world class bank. There were 18 machines all in a row. It's where I cut my teeth. That's the bank that Danny steered me too when I was first starting. Thanks, Danny.
It was this play that caused the heat to start coming down. Randy was the first one to get pitched. He was playing a dollar five-play Super Aces in the River Bar, going from 1 coin between double times to 25 coins in double time. When Randy got pitched I backed off from the Pioneer. It was slowing down anyways.
I grabbed a seat. I think the sign up top said "In Double Time 60 to 120 coins pays double. So I went to the 4-card keno. The two-spot payed 60 coins for a 4 coin bet. I pulled out my pocket calculator and did the two-spot match. The frequency was 16.63. At 15 for 1 the keno game was worth 90.2%. In double time that would be 180.4%. I set the cards up with the numbers 1 and 2 on the first card, 3 and 4 on the second card, 5 and 6 on the third card, 7 and 8 on the fourth card. Then I hit the 1 coin button and smacked the deal button. Only the first card played and the other cards cleared the numbers Damn, that ain't gonna work! So I set the cards back up and bet one coin on each card. That worked. And in double time I could just start smacking the max coin button.
But it was gonna be expensive to keep the machine qualified. I was going to have to bet $1 about 6 times a minute to keep the machine qualified. I timed how many games I could get out in a minute, about 8. That would be a $32 wager at 180.4%. It was worth about $27 per double time. But it was going to cost me about $30 an hour to keep the machine qualified.
But the couple was also playing video poker. I went through all the payscales. There was nothing that fit the parameters of the double time. There was no full house that payed 60 coins. Why in the hell were they playing video poker? I racked my brain for several minutes trying to figure it out. Then it dawned on me. They were using the quarter 9/6 Jacks to keep the machine qualified. They weren't paying $30 an hour to keep the machine qualified. Using the 9/6 Jacks would cost only a couple of bucks an hour to keep the machine qualified. I hit the "More Games" sensor and went back to the Game Selection screen, hit the 4-Card Keno sensor, then smacked the max bet button when the game came up. It only took a few seconds, wow! So that's what they were doing.
I went to the Gift Shop, bought a hat, then came back and set down on the end machine next to the wall. I didn't want to be recognized. If the other hustlers seen me on the bank they would know something was up. I had the whole play to myself.
more later....
Quote: AxelWolfActually I was talking about a different couple (They knew Danny fairly well. Ill PM you.). They didn't really play to many different plays. I don't remember seeing them on the Double (not that they didn't play it)
However, I do know exactly who you are referring to (they made a few plays for me in Laughlin ) and can see why the confusion. I believe her name was Carol or something. His name started with J I think. This guy looked like a gruff character from a western movie, minus the hat. At first he was not to friendly.
I first meet them at Palace Station in the poker room 4-8 games while taking breaks from Flush Attack. Eventually they read Card Player article about Flush Attack and became competition right there at PS. It was mostly her who played, he was more interested in poker. Eventually he was mostly playing online poker in the hotel room @ the River side, after Vegas Flush attack got slow.
She played the same end Flush Attack machine for years with no heat, She would even have it to herself for weeks at a time, right after the often done security Flush Attack raids. She didn't catch heat because she 5 coins in between the Attack mode. She just played slowly and sneaky. She would load up the machine with credits. Then she would Feed in 5 coins but not draw the hand. Then she would continue to feed in coins 5 at a time and they would just drop into the tray. It looked as if she was just a 5 coin playing ploppy. When the bonus came on she quickly started using the credits to play, she must have made a fortune. I can only imagine her disappoint when they slowly took them out. The last time I seen them was in the mid 2000s.
I got pitched off the Flush Attack bank at the end of 1997 by the assistant slot manager. He told me security called down and told him to pitch me off. I knew he was lying. I got the bank back a year later when he got fired.
There was a really short younger head security guard that had a hard on for FA players. He would bring 4 security guards with him and clean house. He targeted me and my old girlfriend one day. I was back playing, with an apology, 30 min later after a visit with the executive host. At that time I wasn't really interested in playing them anymore anyways.Quote: mickeycrimmI got pitched off the Flush Attack bank at the end of 1997 by the assistant slot manager. He told me security called down and told him to pitch me off. I knew he was lying. I got the bank back a year later when he got fired.
My old GF liked to play them, so I would just stop by and play for a while to shoe away the slobbering, Ogling, old drunks. But she got a fee pass for the rest of the time she played. She also got on the, tip a host $20 a week hotel stay deal, when I couldn't make it.
YIKES.....come to think of it, that bank of Flush Attack had the pleasure of hosting play to 4 of Axel's GF's, and few dates. They all stayed in the same exact suite as well.
PS. RCB is the only one that really counted.
*looks over shoulder*
Quote: AxelWolfThere was a really short younger head security guard that had a hard on for FA players. He would bring 4 security guards with him and clean house. He targeted me and my old girlfriend one day. I was back playing, with an apology, 30 min later after a visit with the executive host. At that time I wasn't really interested in playing them anymore anyways.
My old GF liked to play them, so I would just stop by and play for a while to shoe away the slobbering, Ogling, old drunks. But she got a fee pass for the rest of the time she played. She also got on the, tip a host $20 a week hotel stay deal, when I couldn't make it.
YIKES.....come to think of it, that bank of Flush Attack had the pleasure of hosting play to 4 of Axel's GF's, and few dates. They all stayed in the same exact suite as well. PS. RCB is the only one that really counted. *looks over shoulder*
We called that security guard "The Nazi." He got reassigned to the no smoking side but would still come over and hassle flush attackers. One day he was looking over my shoulder so I started betting five coins between the lights. When the light came on I went to betting one coin. He asked me what I was doing. I said "That flush attack light is for suckers." He walked away shaking his head.
I'm not surprised they pitched people out for this . They originally had a different old school double time on slots,( I think this was even before I was 21, I think it lasted until the new system was put in) It played that annoying double time song and you could time it. Guys did well on this this one at the begging as well. They were very jumpy and watched out for people taking advantage of it. They would toss people out fast and even get real nasty at times. I played it sparingly in the mid 90s. I made sure not to wear out my welcome. When they 86ed randy did they get nasty?Quote: mickeycrimmThe video blackjack play at the Pioneer, that Axel talked about in another thread, was the holy grail of plays at the Pioneer Hustler's Convention. I didn't get in on it, and was asked to stay away by Tim and Frank. The blackjack game was on a dollar Odyssey machine. You could bet up to 100 coins but only had to bet 1 coin to keep the machine qualified. In double time, if you pushed the hand, it payed you your 100 coins back plus another 100 coins. If you won the hand it payed you your 100 coins back, plus another 100 coins, then payed you another 200 coins. You got payed 4 for 1 on your winning hands. The absolute nuts.
It was this play that caused the heat to start coming down. Randy was the first one to get pitched. He was playing a dollar five-play Super Aces in the River Bar, going from 1 coin between double times to 25 coins in double time. When Randy got pitched I backed off from the Pioneer. It was slowing down anyways.
Quote: AxelWolfWhen they 86ed randy did they get nasty?
No. Randy was friends with the casino manager at the Golden Nugget who was friends with the Pioneer casino manager. He mediated the situation for Randy and got him back into the Pioneer. I was pretty much through with the play when Randy got pitched. I went north to Reno and have never returned to Laughlin. It's been 12 years now.
Quote: AxelWolfI'm not surprised they pitched people out for this . They originally had a different old school double time on slots,( I think this was even before I was 21, I think it lasted until the new system was put in) It played that annoying double time song and you could time it. Guys did well on this this one at the begging as well. They were very jumpy and watched out for people taking advantage of it. They would toss people out fast and even get real nasty at times. I played it sparingly in the mid 90s. I made sure not to wear out my welcome. When they 86ed randy did they get nasty?
There was always heat on the Flush Attack bank too. They finally unlinked them to end the controversy. But this created another pretty good play. They were the 8/5 version coming in at 101.83% with Flush 50 strategy. The card was worth .1666% cashback and .3333% comp. They were always running double point days and various other promotions. So we played straight through. When a ploppie played the game, whenever he/she got up, we would cup our machine and move over play theirs until we collected the bonus flush, then move back over. They lost money for a couple of years on that bank until they chopped the payscale.
Riverside un-linked them? I thought they cut the bank down in half and put Game Kings in there place and then took the rest out and added the game kings in soon after. How long were they un-linked before they took them out? What year?Quote: mickeycrimmThere was always heat on the Flush Attack bank too. They finally unlinked them to end the controversy. But this created another pretty good play. They were the 8/5 version coming in at 101.83% with Flush 50 strategy. The card was worth .1666% cashback and .3333% comp. They were always running double point days and various other promotions. So we played straight through. When a ploppie played the game, whenever he/she got up, we would cup our machine and move over play theirs until we collected the bonus flush, then move back over. They lost money for a couple of years on that bank until they chopped the payscale.
Quote: AxelWolfRiverside un-linked them? I thought they cut the bank down in half and put Game Kings in there place and then took the rest out and added the game kings in soon after. How long were they un-linked before they took them out? What year?
I was talking about the Flush Attacks in the Pioneer, not the Riverside. I played Flush Attacks all over the state and watched them slowly disappear. They couldn't get parts from Sigma and had to cannibalize machines to keep the remaining ones running.
"Mickey, what's going on over here?" I turned and looked. It was Randy.
"Oh, hey, Randy. You ain't going to rat me out are you?"
"How strong is it."
"About 180%. It's worth about $150 an hour right now but if other hustlers get on the bank it's gonna suck the money pool down."
"I'll leave you alone for today, but tomorrow I'm going to have to send one of my crew over here."
But a couple of hours later I hear:
"What's going on here, Mickey?" I turned and looked. It was Allen.
"Hi, Allen. Then oak chairs at the bar are killing my butt. I thought I would sit in these nice soft chairs and play a little video poker and keno."
"Nice try, Mickey. Now what's going on here. Are you going to tell me or do I have to figure it out myself?"
"Grab a seat, Allen." I said with a little exasperation. "I guess I can throw this stupid hat away now." I threw the hat between the machines.
I showed Allen how it was done.
"That's good, Mickey. How did you figure all of that out?"
"Just playing follow the hustler."
By the next day Frank was also on the bank. Then Axel and his hot chick girlfriend showed up. One morning I was the first one to the bank. They had changed the double time parameters to 100 to 250 coins. The 3-spot fit in those parameters so I started playing it. Axel showed up.
"Why are you playing a 3-spot?" he asked.
"It fits in the parameters."
"No, that's not what you do-" I think he wanted to add "you idiot" but refrained.
'What am I supposed to do?"
"Play the same numbers on the two spot on two different cards. It'll pay 120 coins then double it.
"Wow! Why didn't I think of that!"
I changed my cards. Axel got a disgusted look on his face for spilling the beans, I think. Anyways, thanks for the tip, Axel. LOL!
The bartops in the River Bar were all dollar 8-coin 9/6 Jacks triple meter progressives. They got hit pretty hard by the hustlers when the double time system went in. The slot techs had all the machines open and the casino manager was walking up and down supervising what was going on. He looked pissed. I stayed as far away from him as I could.
The next day Randy got pitched. That's when I finally backed off from the Pioneer.
