Aggiefury101
Aggiefury101
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June 13th, 2013 at 11:33:08 AM permalink
As a beginner does anyone know where I can find poker terms to add to the ease of learning. I'm studying optimal strategy and i'm trying to fill in the blanks of terms like 3 to a straight flush, 4 to an outside straight, etc etc. Any help is appreciated and thanks good people!
Mission146
Mission146
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June 13th, 2013 at 11:54:37 AM permalink
Three to a Straight Flush just means that you are holding three cards of the same suit in which you would need two cards to make a straight, flush, or straight flush.

For example, if you hold 3c, 5c, 6c, you're three to a Straight Flush.

Four to an outside straight just means that you have a straight draw that is not a gutshot, not a Five needed for a wheel straight, and not an AHigh straight. For example:

2-3-4-5 is an open-ended straight draw, an Ace or six will do it.

2-3-5-6- is a gutshot, only a four makes the straight.

A-2-3-4 is where you need a five for the wheel straight.

10-J-Q-K is an Ace-High Straight, so that's not open-ended.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
RogerKint
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June 13th, 2013 at 12:00:43 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146



10-J-Q-K is an Ace-High Straight, so that's not open-ended.



All this time I thought the above example was an open-ended straight draw because a 9 or A makes the straight. Did you mean J-Q-K-A?
100% risk of ruin
rxwine
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June 13th, 2013 at 1:29:25 PM permalink
I probably should check and see if there are more standard terms. For instance, if I get something that is not normally easy from a draw. Let's say, pick up a full house from a pair, or one high card to a flush or straight. I usually say "Full House, the hard way" or "Straight the hard way" in my head anyway.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
tringlomane
tringlomane
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June 13th, 2013 at 2:10:12 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146


2-3-5-6- is a gutshot, only a four makes the straight.



This is often called in video poker terms as an "inside" straight, but I call them gutshots as well.
Aggiefury101
Aggiefury101
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June 13th, 2013 at 2:21:03 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Three to a Straight Flush just means that you are holding three cards of the same suit in which you would need two cards to make a straight, flush, or straight flush.

For example, if you hold 3c, 5c, 6c, you're three to a Straight Flush.

Four to an outside straight just means that you have a straight draw that is not a gutshot, not a Five needed for a wheel straight, and not an AHigh straight. For example:

2-3-4-5 is an open-ended straight draw, an Ace or six will do it.

2-3-5-6- is a gutshot, only a four makes the straight.

A-2-3-4 is where you need a five for the wheel straight.

10-J-Q-K is an Ace-High Straight, so that's not open-ended.



Very informative! This is an incredible forum. Glad I found it!
JimRockford
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June 13th, 2013 at 2:26:10 PM permalink
If OP is studying strategy, someone should define a penalty card. I am not that someone.
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." -- Isaac Newton
Aggiefury101
Aggiefury101
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June 13th, 2013 at 2:29:50 PM permalink
Quote: JimRockford

If OP is studying strategy, someone should define a penalty card. I am not that someone.



I am. Be a sport lol
JimRockford
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June 13th, 2013 at 2:47:55 PM permalink
Quote: JimRockford

If OP is studying strategy, someone should define a penalty card. I am not that someone.



Well I'll just quote our Wizard, but I will not take follow up questions.
"Penalty card: Sometimes one must discard a potentially useful card. In rare situations cards you would never keep can still tip the scales in favor of one play over another. For example, take the situation in footnote F. The player has a king of clubs, 10 of clubs, 9 of spades, 6 of clubs, and a 3 of diamonds. The best options are to either keep the suited 10 and king or the king only. The suited 10 and king is usually the better option. However in this scenario two potentially useful cards would be discarded, the 9 (lowering the odds of forming a straight), and the 6 of clubs (lowering the odds of forming a flush). These two penalty cards degrade the value of the suited 10 and king to below that of keeping the king only".
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." -- Isaac Newton
tringlomane
tringlomane
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June 13th, 2013 at 2:57:22 PM permalink
Quote: JimRockford

If OP is studying strategy, someone should define a penalty card. I am not that someone.



Penalty cards are situations where your discards will negatively affect the expected return of the hold. For example, in 9/6 Jacks or better (JoB), typically you hold 3 to a Royal flush over 4 to a flush. But if you have 3 to a Royal with the Ace and Ten and you have something like Ac Qc Tc Kd 7c, here you would hold 4 to a flush because the King hurts your chances of making a straight if you went for 3 to a Royal, making it a "straight penalty card". This particular rule in JoB only applies to the 9/6 version (9 for 1 on the full house and 6 for 1 on the flush), which is usually the best available version of the game (99.54% optimal return). Versions of game where the flush only pays 5 for 1, you would always hold 3 to a Royal over 4 to a flush.

Personally, I feel penalty cards are very overrated unless you play video poker very seriously like Bob Dancer and the Wizard. It's much more important to have basic strategy accurately memorized than knowing penalty exceptions to basic strategy.
djatc
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June 13th, 2013 at 3:25:15 PM permalink
Most penalty card situations equate to less then a cent in errors. Don't worry about them too much.

It shouldn't stop you from playing real money, and over time you can figure out penalty card situations while you learn.

Also keep in mind in deuces wild the deuce fills a requirement: 3 to a SF no gaps means the deuce can be played anywhere in or out of the 2 suited cards. This confused me in the beginning.

Over time you'll figure out strategy just by looking at paytables to determine the best draw. NSUD requires a 2 pair hold while regular deuces doesn't, as well as other changes because straight flushes and full houses pay more.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
Aggiefury101
Aggiefury101
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June 13th, 2013 at 3:57:55 PM permalink
I appreciate all the tips. The terms are slowly coming together. I think I'll address the penalty card when I get my errors down. I'm going back over the strategy and is really starting to come together.
Mission146
Mission146
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June 14th, 2013 at 4:06:20 AM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

All this time I thought the above example was an open-ended straight draw because a 9 or A makes the straight. Did you mean J-Q-K-A?



Yes, I did...lol
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
Mission146
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June 14th, 2013 at 4:09:29 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

This is often called in video poker terms as an "inside" straight, but I call them gutshots as well.



Too much THE, in my case, I don't really actually play VP in the casino. I don't care for it, I'm afraid, sometimes I do the videopoker.com thing, but usually, I'll do it a few days in a row and then forget about it for a couple months.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
djatc
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June 14th, 2013 at 2:56:33 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Too much THE, in my case, I don't really actually play VP in the casino. I don't care for it, I'm afraid, sometimes I do the videopoker.com thing, but usually, I'll do it a few days in a row and then forget about it for a couple months.



Chasing gutshots = bad pot odds pretty much all the time in poker

Chasing gutshots = valid play outside of JoB in VP

I still hate playing gutshots in VP. 4 outters have never been good to me.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
rudeboyoi
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June 14th, 2013 at 4:42:10 PM permalink
when i make strategy cards i use terms like:

RF - Royal Flush
WRF - Wild Royal Flush
SF - Straight Flush
OESD - open ended straight draw
GS - Gutshot
Quads - Four of a Kind
Boat - Full House (i guess FH would be better)
Trips - Three of a Kind

and to write something like straight flush with 1gap id put SF (1) or SF(1-2) if its 1 to 2 gaps.
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