6:5 BJ---will competition kill it?

Quote: SolidAU

I don't understand why people hold such disdain for people who play games poorly or who don't care about the odds. If someone is having a good time, why is it anyone's business how they choose to spend their time and money? Do you tell the guy who spends $300 on a bottle of wine at a restaurant that he could have bought it for $60 from a wholesaler?

Disdaining the house for offering lousy bets is what protects those bad players and keeps them from having to care about the odds. Atlantic City doesn't allow Big 6/8 bets because they're a swindle. You could make a compelling case that 6:5 is the same situation.

A more apt analogy might be a restaurant offering a really nice $30 bottle and Blue Nun for $300. It's not a case of fraud, but it's pretty damn slimey.

Bellagio also does not have 6:5 blackjack. I've played there on the CSM $10 tables on weekend nights. I was surprised when I saw 3:2 at $5 on a Tuesday morning. Mind you, the dealers aren't that friendly there, but Bellagio does not offer 6:5.

Bally's however, does, and there is indifference between the 6:5 games and the 3:2 games. There are enough indifferent gamblers who do not know that 6:5 is worse. Hell, when spots are tight, there is indifference between Switch, Spanish, 3:2 and 6:5. You'll see regular gamblers play regular blackjack strategy at Switch and Spanish and I just shake my head. I figure, more money to the casino... keeps it open.

So no, as long as folks aren't edumacated, and they won't be, as Barnum and Bailey said, "there's a sucker born every minute". Now give me the horn high yo!

Quote: Wizard

Correct me if I'm wrong, as always, but I think the Venetian/Palazzo has 100% 3-2 blackjack. Same with the M.

Regarding the general question, the Strip casinos argue that a $5-$10 minimum 3-2 table is not profitable enough to keep on the floor. To play the devil's advocate, they would say the public is better served by giving the $5-$10 blackjack player something to play, rather than start all their blackjack tables at a $25 minimum. Furthermore, they would argue that even 6-5 blackjack is a better bet than most other games.

While those are valid points, I think the Vegas casinos are abusing it, and are trying to gradually phase more and more tables to 6-5. That kind of greed is killing the city.

Wizard, or anyone who may have this information, are there any surveys or numbers out there that detail what percentage of BJ games on the Strip are 6-5 or any other "carnival" type BJ games? I remember reading there are something like 2,400 BJ tables on the Strip, but I am curious to see how much table space these horrible games have taken.

Quote: LSUTiger518

are there any surveys out there that detail what percentage of BJ games on the Strip are 6-5 or any other "carnival" type BJ games?

I don't know of any but I would hope that such a survey would differentiate between the brazenly overt 6:5 and the more secretive and thus deceptive offerings. I think there is a difference between some One-Dollar Party Pit with signage as large as a pastie versus a casino that attempts to sneak in 6:5 games with tiny signage and no indication of its being some sort of special area of the casino.

I've played at a Crapless Craps table and it took a few moments and a comment from the dealer for my alcohol-sodden brain to accept that 12 was my point number. The state of my inebriation is my responsibility but the signage and location of the table is the casino's responsibility. I think its a similar situation with 6:5 or 1:1 Blackjack. Its okay if its in an overtly obvious area and has appropriately large signage. That doesn't necessarily make it desirable, nor does it quite make it as economically necessary as the casino might claim, but it does make it fair notice to the player that its a special situation. A casino can have two roulette wheels in close proximity to each other, but signage should be large and explicit if the zero situation is different.

Quote: mkl654321

If you had spent any time in North America, you would know that there are about three single-zero roulette wheels on the entire continent. As far as "bitching" or "gladly playing", though, roulette isn't a very popular game in America; the houae edge is prohibitive because of the double zero, but it's also a pretty mindless game.

Nah, there are four single 0 wheels in Detroit. 2 at MGM and one each at Greektown and Motorcity. LOL

Quote: BigTip

And that's why I saw an eight deck shoe game paying 6/5 at Bill's. Incredible.

Yeah, they have an 8 deck H17 pit at MGM Detroit with 6/5. You get a "free" tee-shirt for playing there.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Yeah, they have an 8 deck H17 pit at MGM Detroit with 6/5. You get a "free" tee-shirt for playing there.

<Homer Simpson voice>Ooh, free tee-shirt!</Homer Simpson voice>

Quote: LSUTiger518

Wizard, or anyone who may have this information, are there any surveys or numbers out there that detail what percentage of BJ games on the Strip are 6-5 or any other "carnival" type BJ games? I remember reading there are something like 2,400 BJ tables on the Strip, but I am curious to see how much table space these horrible games have taken.

According to the September 2010 Current Blackjack Newsletter:

Total blackjack tables = 2099
Total 6-5 = 467
Total Super Fun 21 = 41
Total BJ Switch = 42
Total Spanish 21 = 6

There are a few other novelty blackjack games I didn't list, but are still included in the total games. The total of the four listed is 556, or 26.5% of the total.

Quote: Wizard

According to the September 2010 Current Blackjack Newsletter:


Total BJ Switch = 42
.

Hey! That is great. I've met the inventor a couple of times. There were only six or so when I first met him at Casino Royale watching the tables. Nice guy.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Nah, there are four single 0 wheels in Detroit. 2 at MGM and one each at Greektown and Motorcity. LOL

And a lot of the new machines have single zero in both Las Vegas and Atlantic City.