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kobalj
kobalj
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June 23rd, 2015 at 7:16:45 AM permalink
Try my free game app in the apple app store and tell me your thoughts. We are trying to go about getting the game into casinos a little differently than the norm. We developed the app to get a good following before taking a stab at getting it into Casinos down the road. It's gotten a good response so far but I think this crowd will be a better indicator towards the ultimate goal.

Here's the link:

http://t.co/t4HPukvdEg
teliot
teliot
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June 23rd, 2015 at 7:59:10 AM permalink
I have to admit, that URL looks dangerous -- virus laden -- I couldn't possibly click on it.
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
kobalj
kobalj
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June 23rd, 2015 at 8:13:43 AM permalink
https://appsto.re/us/ZbTL6.i

Or go into the apple appstore and search Casino Over Under. Fast paced game played w 8 decks. House edge just under 1%.
teliot
teliot
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June 23rd, 2015 at 8:21:49 AM permalink
Android user -- Apple is a cult.
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
kobalj
kobalj
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June 23rd, 2015 at 8:23:36 AM permalink
Android coming soon!!
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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June 23rd, 2015 at 11:18:40 AM permalink
Do you have a website to describe the game?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
kobalj
kobalj
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June 23rd, 2015 at 11:48:34 AM permalink
casinooverunder.com
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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June 23rd, 2015 at 11:53:58 AM permalink
Sigh... http://www.casinooverunder.com
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MathExtremist
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June 23rd, 2015 at 1:45:06 PM permalink
Quote: kobalj

Or go into the apple appstore and search Casino Over Under. Fast paced game played w 8 decks. House edge just under 1%.


That's off the top, though. This intuitively seems pretty countable to me, have you done the EORs? What does your optimal strategy say is the fold percentage?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
mrsuit31
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June 23rd, 2015 at 1:58:18 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

This intuitively seems pretty countable to me



This unfortunately seems to be the case in my mind as well. Although the usual continuous shoe statement will overcome this as in every other game. Just at a significantly increased cost to the operator for a under 1% HA game........ May be something to keep in mind.
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kobalj
kobalj
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June 23rd, 2015 at 2:06:34 PM permalink
Well we had a statistician do the HE analysis and you're welcome to see his report. He's apparently well known in the industry. His name is Don Catlin. I'd be more than happy to send you his report. I can tell you that when playing optimally you should never fold. I was surprised by that but I specifically recall him discussing that with us. Also, he points out in his report that the HE moves considerably by changing the number of decks and of course modifying a rule on ties or the range itself. He felt you can utilize an edge anywhere between 1% and 5% without ruining the game play.

As far as the EOR's go, that was not part of the report. To be completely upfront, that is a concern of mine as well. We will have to figure that out sooner than later as that could certainly could be a deal breaker when playing for real.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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June 23rd, 2015 at 2:26:55 PM permalink
Quote: kobalj

Well we had a statistician do the HE analysis and you're welcome to see his report. He's apparently well known in the industry. His name is Don Catlin. I'd be more than happy to send you his report. I can tell you that when playing optimally you should never fold. I was surprised by that but I specifically recall him discussing that with us. Also, he points out in his report that the HE moves considerably by changing the number of decks and of course modifying a rule on ties or the range itself. He felt you can utilize an edge anywhere between 1% and 5% without ruining the game play.

As far as the EOR's go, that was not part of the report. To be completely upfront, that is a concern of mine as well. We will have to figure that out sooner than later as that could certainly could be a deal breaker when playing for real.


I know Professor Catlin's work as anyone in the business should. But if he didn't do an EoR study for you, you should either have him do that or hire Eliot post-haste. Then code up a simulator and see whether the game is beatable with penetration. You don't want to go to market with the caveat "this game is only safe to operate with a CSM."
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
kobalj
kobalj
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June 23rd, 2015 at 3:02:29 PM permalink
Thank you very much for taking the time to evaluate the game and of course for your valuable feedback. This site is impressive.
redjohn
redjohn
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October 20th, 2015 at 3:07:50 PM permalink
Why have you downgraded the felt ?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByfBeKg_SS29YndFUWNSeTVNd3c/view
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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May 27th, 2016 at 4:03:30 PM permalink
Here is my analysis of the Bonus bet, assuming six decks:

Total Pays Combinations Probability Return
6 or 33 50 4,048 0.000807 0.040372
7 or 32 10 33,120 0.006606 0.066064
8 or 31 5 129,312 0.025794 0.128968
9 or 30 4 227,272 0.045334 0.181335
10 or 29 3 211,680 0.042224 0.126671
11 or 28 2 259,200 0.051702 0.103405
12 or 27 1 312,496 0.062333 0.062333
13 to 26 -1 3,836,192 0.765200 -0.765200
Total 5,013,320 1.000000 -0.056052


And the same thing for eight decks.

Total Pays Combinations Probability Return
6 or 33 50 9,920 0.000833 0.041638
7 or 32 10 79,360 0.006662 0.066621
8 or 31 5 307,712 0.025832 0.129159
9 or 30 4 541,920 0.045493 0.181972
10 or 29 3 503,296 0.042251 0.126752
11 or 28 2 616,448 0.051749 0.103499
12 or 27 1 742,592 0.062339 0.062339
13 to 26 -1 9,110,912 0.764841 -0.764841
Total 11,912,160 1.000000 -0.052862


Can anybody confirm or deny they are using the pay table above? The math report mentions another one, but the video on the game web site says they intend to use the one above.

Also, does anyone know the number of decks they are using at the Magnolia Bluffs?

Finally, can anybody confirm or deny how they are dealing the game (cut card or continuous shuffler)? Feel free to PM me that answer if you prefer it not posted.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Ibeatyouraces
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May 27th, 2016 at 4:08:14 PM permalink
Eliot came up with the same figures. Also a card counting analysis.

https://apheat.net/2016/05/03/card-counting-the-bonus-side-bet-in-overunder/
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Wizard
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Wizard
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May 28th, 2016 at 4:19:29 PM permalink
Just finished my own page on Casino Over Under. In all honesty, I don't break any new ground on it. However, please have a look anyway. As always, I welcome all comments, questions, and especially corrections.

Thank you.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
FleaStiff
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May 28th, 2016 at 4:41:35 PM permalink
Suggestion: in the how to play section get rid of all adjectives.

Just Step one
Step two
Step three.... as it would be printed on the table layout or a casino tent-card on the table.

Values are not 'as in blackjack except Aces are always eleven.
Values are:
1 - 10 indicated pip value
Picture 10
Ace 11 (or) 11 at all times.

take out the adjectives and descriptive puffery. Simple.
Wizard
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Wizard
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May 28th, 2016 at 8:36:18 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Suggestion: in the how to play section get rid of all adjectives.



I'm always appreciative of suggestions. I also agree that explanation of game rules are no place for adjectives. That said, can you be more specific about anything you find objectionable. It looks like my wording of the card values is the same as yours, except I used "face cards" and you used "picture."

Maybe I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so can you give me a specific rule you find is too adjective-laden, and what you would recommend in its stead, and I'll be happy to consider it.

Thank you.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
beachbumbabs
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May 28th, 2016 at 10:34:56 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Suggestion: in the how to play section get rid of all adjectives.

Just Step one
Step two
Step three.... as it would be printed on the table layout or a casino tent-card on the table.

Values are not 'as in blackjack except Aces are always eleven.
Values are:
1 - 10 indicated pip value
Picture 10
Ace 11 (or) 11 at all times.

take out the adjectives and descriptive puffery. Simple.



Haven't looked at the Wizard page yet, but pip 1-10 face value is incorrect if aces are always 11. maybe pip 2-10?
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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May 29th, 2016 at 3:00:37 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm always appreciative of suggestions. I also agree that explanation of game rules are no place for adjectives. That said, can you be more specific about anything you find objectionable. It looks like my wording of the card values is the same as yours, except I used "face cards" and you used "picture."

Maybe I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so can you give me a specific rule you find is too adjective-laden, and what you would recommend in its stead, and I'll be happy to consider it.

Thank you.



Sorry, my post was meant to address the excessively verbose text on the game-inventors' website, not any post in this thread or your brand new page which I thought was quite good.

Note: Face card is indeed a better term than picture card.

"Sharpest Tool In The Shed": The sharpest is always the guy who owns the casino, but other than that you seem to be pretty sharp.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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May 29th, 2016 at 3:04:16 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Haven't looked at the Wizard page yet, but pip 1-10 face value is incorrect if aces are always 11. maybe pip 2-10?

Thanks, I'm not even good at proofreading when I am sober!
Wizard
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Wizard
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May 29th, 2016 at 6:50:15 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

"Sharpest Tool In The Shed": The sharpest is always the guy who owns the casino, but other than that you seem to be pretty sharp.



Thank you. Actually, I think whoever backed the Revel may not have been that sharp.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizardofnothing
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May 29th, 2016 at 11:04:09 AM permalink
As if a couple weeks ago I can confirm that payable is correct- not sure if anything changed since end of April
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
LuckyPhow
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May 29th, 2016 at 5:49:16 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Just finished my own page on Casino Over Under. In all honesty, I don't break any new ground on it. However, please have a look anyway. As always, I welcome all comments, questions, and especially corrections.

Thank you.



Wiz, step 3 in your game-play instructions may have a problem. As I understand it, Kobal says the player is never required to place a Bonus bet, but, if placed, the Bonus bet must equal the Ante bet. Your step 3 seems to suggest the player may omit the Ante ("Play starts with the player making an Ante and/or Bonus wager. ")

Does this improve your text? "Play starts with the player making an Ante wager. In addition, the player may bet an amount equal to the Ante wager on the optional Bonus wager."

Or, am I overlooking something on what has been presented to us as a very simple, easy-to-play game?
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