Lucky 8
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10 members have voted
The question for the poll is would you play Lucky 8?
Quote: LoquaciousMoFWWiz, I think you have the wrong domain name in the link (WoV rather than WoO) :)
yep...I typed in Odds and got to the page...
https://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/side-bets/lucky8/
Quote: LoquaciousMoFWWiz, I think you have the wrong domain name in the link (WoV rather than WoO) :)
Thanks!
Quote: charliepatrickMuch more interesting if it paid 8/1 (9 for 1) for a winning 8 and lost otherwise. But then it would probably be countable.
There was such a bet at the Marina Bay Sands in Singapore for a short while.
Suited 3-card 8: Only the chosen hand (Player or Banker) has a 3-card card total of 8.
Can you explain this? In particular clarify what the other hand can be, and fix "3-card card" to be what you meant it to be.
Here is how I coded this for the Banker side, where gN is the number of ways that sequence of six cards can occur, y is the Banker's total and x is the Player's total.
if (y == 8 && x == 8\
&& bankerThreeCardSuited(a,b,c,d,e,f)\
&& playerThreeCardSuited(a,b,c,d,e,f))
paysB[0] += gN;
else
if (y == 8 && x != 8 && bankerThreeCardSuited(a,b,c,d,e,f))
paysB[1] += gN;
else
if (y == 8 && x == 8)
paysB[2] += gN;
else
if (y == 8 && x == 9)
paysB[3] += gN;
else
if (y == 8 && x < 8)
paysB[4] += gN;
else
paysB[5] += gN;
Obviously, I am getting different results from you.
Thanks.
Yes. That's why I have already gotten to work on it. But, Mike's second rule for the bet is not at all clear and I can't duplicate his results. So, I am in waiting mode for Mike's response.Quote: UCivanteliot / Wizard, This has to be very countable, right?
Quote: WizardSuited 3-card 8: Only the chosen hand (Player or Banker) has a 3-card card total of 8.
What's the 'chosen hand'? The hand that your regular bet is on? What if you sit out a hand or bet the tie?
The side you make the side bet on. It's really two different bets.Quote: DJTeddyBearWhat's the 'chosen hand'? The hand that your regular bet is on? What if you sit out a hand or bet the tie?
Quote: teliotYes. That's why I have already gotten to work on it. But, Mike's second rule for the bet is not at all clear and I can't duplicate his results. So, I am in waiting mode for Mike's response.
WSGC rules also give different house edges than Mike. Doing my own analysis too.
Very helpful.Quote: mipletWSGC rules also give different house edges than Mike. Doing my own analysis too.
Quote: UCivanteliot / Wizard, This has to be very countable, right?
And this is a perfect example of why if when you do find something, and you care about having opportunities, not to post up in public forums about it. If you need help figuring something out PM someone and ask.Quote: teliotYes. That's why I have already gotten to work on it. But, Mike's second rule for the bet is not at all clear and I can't duplicate his results. So, I am in waiting mode for Mike's response.
Quote: AxelWolfAnd this is a perfect example of why if when you do find something, and you care about having opportunities, not to post up in public forums about it. If you need help figuring something out PM someone and ask.
Want to know almost everything about card counting in Baccarat, see Eliot's web site, here Baccarat. It's public.
"Almost" excludes many opportunities that are ongoing that I don't find out about until they are burnt out. I don't think Lucky 8 will rise to that level, my intuition says "not so much," at least with this pay table.Quote: UCivanWant to know almost everything about card counting in Baccarat, see Eliot's web site, here Baccarat. It's public.
Click here for Lucky 8 in UK.
Quote: teliot"Almost" excludes many opportunities that are ongoing that I don't find out about until they are burnt out. I don't think Lucky 8 will rise to that level, my intuition says "not so much," at least with this pay table.Quote: UCivanWant to know almost everything about card counting in Baccarat, see Eliot's web site, here Baccarat. It's public.
We have analysed it few months ago and our results match yours.
You are correct, there are more opportunities out there. The better pay table,3/8/25/50/200. The HE(Banker) = -9.722365%, HE(Palyer) = -6.149328%.
8 decks, cut card put at 14 cards from bottom, Lucky 8(Player), EV/shoe=0.93 unit( Unbalanced RC system), EV/shoe=0.97 unit(True Count system)
Heh 8-). Ssho88 is a professional full-time AP. One of the very best on this site. He was recently on a cruise playing against a side bet, which is probably burnt out now.Quote: UCivanDid U publish them? What is your site?
Quote: UCivanDid U publish them? What is your site?Quote: ssho88Quote: UCivanWant to know almost everything about card counting in Baccarat, see Eliot's web site, here Baccarat. It's public.
Not really, he only covered 65%+- of the baccarat sidebets that we have analysed.
It's ONLY for our team. Sorry mate.
Quote: ssho88...It's ONLY for our team. Sorry mate.
Great answer!!
No apology needed, we also have analyzed all side bets, just have not published them.Quote: ssho88Quote: UCivanDid U publish them? What is your site?Quote: ssho88Quote: UCivanWant to know almost everything about card counting in Baccarat, see Eliot's web site, here Baccarat. It's public.
Not really, he only covered 65%+- of the baccarat sidebets that we have analysed.
It's ONLY for our team. Sorry mate.
Quote: teliotHeh 8-). Ssho88 is a professional full-time AP. One of the very best on this site. He was recently on a cruise playing against a side bet, which is probably burnt out now.
Burnt out ? Really ?
Could you find lucky 8 games with pay table 3/8/25/50/200 ? There are more beatable games out of US than you can imagine :=)
Care to share the story (minus the name of the cruise line and name of the bet)?Quote: ssho88Burnt out ? Really ?
Quote: UCivanNo apology needed, we also have analyzed all side bets, just have not published them.Quote: ssho88Quote: UCivanDid U publish them? What is your site?Quote: ssho88Quote: UCivanWant to know almost everything about card counting in Baccarat, see Eliot's web site, here Baccarat. It's public.
Not really, he only covered 65%+- of the baccarat sidebets that we have analysed.
It's ONLY for our team. Sorry mate.
Have yo heard of these games ?
2 EITHER PAIR
6 FLEX ACTION
8 SUPER 6
9 FINAL TOTAL 4 CARDS
11 FINAL TOTAL 6 CARDS
12 TIE WITH 4 CARDS
14 TIE WITH 6 CARDS
16 TIE ON ODD NO(5 vs 5, 7 vs 7 . . . . )
20 PLAYER FINAL TOTAL ODD NUMBER
23 ZODIAC - WE won nearly 500k in last October(The best sidebet !)
29 WAR BACCARAT
And more . . . . .There are total 43 games in our programmer's game list. . . . .
Quote: teliotCare to share the story (minus the name of the cruise line and name of the bet)?
I will post it here once the game burn out. No game can last forever, it will be burnt out one day.
Not at the moment, please be patience.
Can you imagine some casinos even offer rolling chips rebate up to 1.8% !
How much have you won against UR Way Egalite?Quote: ssho88There are total 43 games in our programmer's game list. . . . .
Quote: teliotHow much have you won against UR Way Egalite?
Not much because the max bet limit is low ! We have better games to play. We also have to spend a lot to "dig" out side bets all over the world.
I don't have a relationship with any casino, business or otherwise, as an informant of any type. I think of myself as a gaming mathematician, writer and teacher. Any income that comes from that lifestyle is good, but I am not food driven. Recently, most of my income has come from book sales and seminars. This week I analyzed a new table game. Often I can do in a few minutes what it takes GLI a few months to complete (and do it better).Quote: ssho88teliot, if you found a beatable game at a casino which does not have any business relations with you, are you going to inform the casino ? What is their response normally ?
Quote: teliotI don't have a relationship with any casino, business or otherwise, as an informant of any type.
But why you publish beatable games to the public especially the casinos ? You may join our team if you want :=)
Thanks. That is very kind. Maybe if I was 25 years younger. Being an AP is an extremely tough lifestyle, requiring endless travel and long hours. I'm very content, even if not as rich, doing what I do.Quote: ssho88But why you publish beatable games to the public especially the casinos ? You may join our team if you want :=)
The reason I publish is that this information should be available to the public. I was a professor for (can you believe it) 26 years, and was involved publishing research articles in journals for about 15 years. I've always felt that information does the greatest good for society when it is in the public domain (I'm a big fan of Wikileaks). I found an area of research that is fun for me, wide-open and held secretively by a select few. Let's put it out there. This forces those who are serious about protecting their games to educate themselves, and education is fundamentally a good thing.
The reality is we see more and more Panda8, Dragon Bonus, Dragon7, Lucky Lucky, Lucky Ladies, etc in casinos everywhere. You don't think table game operators read as much as you do? You really believe you out smart them; they don't know what they are doing?Quote: ssho88But why you publish beatable games to the public especially the casinos ? You may join our team if you want :=)
I will vouch for ssho88, he and his team sometimes (not always) outsmart "them" (us), big time.Quote: UCivanYou really believe you out smart them; they don't know what they are doing?
Quote: teliotThanks. That is very kind. Maybe if I was 25 years younger. Being an AP is an extremely tough lifestyle, requiring endless travel and long hours. I'm very content, even if not as rich, doing what I do.
Most AP said that you are on the casino side simply because your seminars only for casino personnel. Any comments ?
You should know that you can't stop APs because there are just too many casino out there and yet these casinos are too stingy and greedy. Can you imagine a side bets with 83% house edge ! They deserve it.
Quote: teliotI will vouch for ssho88, he and his team sometimes (not always) outsmart "them" (us), big time.
We are not as good as you think, but we are able to find dumb casinos more often than others
Eliot, this is one of the greatest complements of your works, since you said ssho88 is a top gun in the field. Congratulations and keep it up. I am a regular viewer of your web.Quote: ssho88But why you publish beatable games to the public especially the casinos ? You may join our team if you want :=)
Of course that's true. I work for the industry. I haven't directly helped an AP beat a casino in over a decade. Of course, if an AP reads my blog and use that information to beat a casino, well, good for them.Quote: ssho88Most AP said that you are on the casino side simply because your seminars only for casino personnel. Any comments ?
This year, most of my seminars and trainings for the industry have been on gaming mathematics, including basic probability theory, as well as the mathematics for slots, table games and risk analysis (confidence intervals, z-Score, n_0, etc.). The enlightened casinos are hungry to learn. I've also taught a few "advanced advantage play" seminars, where I cover the material in my book and blog. Bill Zender and I are co-presenting a one-day seminar on advanced advantage play in July.
In all my years as a college professor, most students who took my courses were there because they had to be, not because they wanted to be. They were fixated on grades instead of learning. And they never got any older (they were always 19 years old). Can you imagine how fabulous it is to teach a group of adults who are there because they want to learn what you are teaching? Then again, when I give them homework (which I do in my math trainings), many of them don't do it.
Quote: ssho88But why you publish beatable games to the public especially the casinos ? You may join our team if you want :=)
That's a huge compliment! Should be a blurb on the next edition of your book, teliot! Cool of you, ssho88.
Yeah, I agree, even though it was obviously tongue-in-cheek.Quote: beachbumbabsThat's a huge compliment!
Concur. 10 million shoes gave 0.96 units/shoe, or 1.18 units/100 for the Player bet with the best pay table. I'll run 1B, etc., and post over on APHeat.Quote: ssho88EV/shoe=0.97 unit(True Count system)
I used the balanced system:
T, J, Q, K, A, 2 = +1
3, 4, 5, 6, 7 = 0
8 = -8
9 = +2
With a trigger TC of +6.
Too low to be attractive.Quote: teliotConcur. 10 million shoes gave 0.96 units/shoe, or 1.18 units/100 for the Player bet with the best pay table. I'll run 1B, etc., and post over on APHeat.
http://apheat.net/2015/06/15/card-counting-the-lucky-8-baccarat-side-bet/
Quote: teliotThanks. That is very kind. Maybe if I was 25 years younger. Being an AP is an extremely tough lifestyle, requiring endless travel and long hours. I'm very content, even if not as rich, doing what I do.
The reason I publish is that this information should be available to the public. I was a professor for (can you believe it) 26 years, and was involved publishing research articles in journals for about 15 years. I've always felt that information does the greatest good for society when it is in the public domain (I'm a big fan of Wikileaks). I found an area of research that is fun for me, wide-open and held secretively by a select few. Let's put it out there. This forces those who are serious about protecting their games to educate themselves, and education is fundamentally a good thing.
You are such a liar. Stop drinking your own kool-aid. I've emailed you a couple times asking to see your source code. Your response was that sorry it's private research that you put time and work into. I even pointed out similar quotes on your website about how much you love freedom of information and your goal is to spread information. You removed all your free information and packaged it in a book to profit off.
Quote: kmanYou are such a liar. Stop drinking your own kool-aid. I've emailed you a couple times asking to see your source code. Your response was that sorry it's private research that you put time and work into. I even pointed out similar quotes on your website about how much you love freedom of information and your goal is to spread information. You removed all your free information and packaged it in a book to profit off.
Very well said. kman
Quote: kmanYou are such a liar. Stop drinking your own kool-aid. I've emailed you a couple times asking to see your source code. Your response was that sorry it's private research that you put time and work into. I even pointed out similar quotes on your website about how much you love freedom of information and your goal is to spread information. You removed all your free information and packaged it in a book to profit off.
Personal insult. 3 days. You're entitled to your opinion of what teliot writes or does, but not to call him names.
