NEW GAME IN AC - Roulette Football
It is a regular E-roulette double zero game from Organic with a Football sidebet.
The game has a screen of a football field graphic which keeps track of the Football game.
Here are the rules.
The sidebet can be made at any time except during a "football game". The min. is $1 and max is $5.
If the outcome of any spin is any red or black number then the bet loses.
If the outcome of any spin is green - then the football game is initiated and the bet is locked until the outcome of the next four spins.
The player is asked to pick a team - red or black - if the player does not pick within the time allotted, they will be randomly given a team to root for.
Each spins outcome decides the yardage for the red or black team. The lower the number on the wheel, the less yardage gained. There is a key on the game to show how much yardage, for ex. number 1-10 = 3 yards while 31 - 36 equals fifteen yards.
So if red 7 is the next spin, the red team has gained 3 yards. If the second spin is 31 black, then the black team has gained 15 yards which would put the ball at 12 yards for the black team.
a green spin is no yardage.
At the end of the fourth spin, the position of the ball(that is the football on the graphic - not the position of the roulette ball) determines payouts.
fifty yard line = tie = 5:1
winning team wins are
41 - 49 yards = 10:1
31 - 40 yards = 25:1
21 - 30 yards = 50:1
11 - 20 yards = 75:1
1 - 10 yards = 250:1
touchdown - 500:1
the losing team actually still wins even money.
I'm sure this is a huge house edge sidebet but it seemed like fun and I was curious about it.
EDIT: I JUST DOUBLE CHECKED THE PHOTO IN MY PHONE AND I WAS A BIT BLURRY EYED AT TWO IN THE MORNING. THE PAYOUTS WERE OFF BY ONE YARD, EX. IT,S 1-10, NOT 1-9 AND 11-20, NOT 10-19. I JUST CORRECTED THEM IN THIS POST SO ABOVE IS CORRECT NOW.
My gut reaction was "Oh god, how drunk do you have to be to bet this?"
Edit: I re-read it and figured it out. A green triggers the game. Any other initial spin is a loss.
Quote: endermikeIf one team scores a touchdown (gains >=50 yards) after three or less spins, does the mini game end without the final spin(s) happening?
It's not possible. You need all 4 15 yard spins to score a touchdown. Game analysis later today if no one else gets to it first.
Quote: mipletIt's not possible. You need all 4 15 yard spins to score a touchdown. Game analysis later today if no one else gets to it first.
Game analysis requires full knowledge of how many yards each number generates.
Also, does a green on a "yardage spin" count as one of the four spins?
Quote: mipletIt's not possible. You need all 4 15 yard spins to score a touchdown. Game analysis later today if no one else gets to it first.
Whoops. thanks. I was nonsensically thinking of "red 36" meaning 36 yards for red. However it seems the description then is missing the yardage gains for spins from 11-30. Darkoz, can you give us the full yardage table?
I took a photo however of the payouts and those r correct as listed.
Also, I clearly remember that the smallest amount of yardage gained was 3 yards and the most was 15. So I just need to clarify what number spread garners what yardage.
Also, just to clarify, if the ball lands in either green during the four spins, then yes it counts as one of the four spins - with zero yardage gained. A new game is not triggered since the bet is unavailable during the course of the "football game".
I assume those are zero yards.Quote: endermikeWhoops. thanks. I was nonsensically thinking of "red 36" meaning 36 yards for red. However it seems the description then is missing the yardage gains for spins from 11-30. Darkoz, can you give us the full yardage table?
Average Return on a game:
| Pays | Ways | Probability | Return |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 991476 | 0.4754970419 | 0.4754970419 |
| 5 | 102184 | 0.04900591616 | 0.2450295808 |
| 10 | 366130 | 0.1755904651 | 1.755904651 |
| 25 | 345809 | 0.1658448178 | 4.146120445 |
| 50 | 189095 | 0.09068713024 | 4.534356512 |
| 75 | 71640 | 0.03435747117 | 2.576810338 |
| 250 | 16291 | 0.007812919637 | 1.953229909 |
| 500 | 2511 | 0.001204237997 | 0.6021189985 |
| Total | 2085136 | 1 | 16.28906748 |
Final Return:
| Pays | Ways | Probability | Return |
|---|---|---|---|
| 16.28906748 | 2 | 0.05263157895 | 0.8573193408 |
| -1 | 36 | 0.9473684211 | -0.9473684211 |
| Total | 38 | 1 | -0.09004908023 |
Hopefully someone can soon verify these assumptions to be true.
Both are double zero tables.
Also, not that it affects the math of the sidebet, but those tables also have no surrender rule unlike all the live tables in AC so if green hits and you have money on even/odd, red/black or high/low, you lose all your bet instead of just half.
However, that link says a touchdown is 1000:1 and that is not at either table in AC. They definitely have a touchdown as 500:1.
They must have a few different pay tables. Wish they would post them.
My average win under the Borgata rules agrees with that of Miplet at 16.289067. Under the South Point rules I get an average win of 16.500540.
However, Miplet assumes that the player gets back his original wager as well if the initial spin is a 0 or 00. I'd be interested to know why he assumes that. In every electronic game I've ever seen, the player never gets back his original wager on a win.
Assuming the original bet is not returned on a win, I get a return of 0.8684495 under the South Point rules and 0.857319341 at Borgata.
Here are some pictures I took. Click on any of them for a larger version.
The losing team still wins even money so if they didn't give back your original bet, you would be winning nothing.
Also, every game begins with 0 or 00 so that is always the initial bet--the bet is then locked until the football game is decided which is after the next four consecutive spins.
Every spin is a losing spin EXCEPT the 0 and 00 outcome which is what you are looking for when playing this sidebet.
I had a 5 dollar bet and my team won 50:1 - I was paid $255
Quote: WizardQuote: mipletMiplet assumed you get your original wager back because the OP used 5:1 instead of 5 for 1.
The rule screens also use a colon. However, that doesn't necessary mean "to one" odds.
If they use a colon to mean "for one" then it's a grammatical error. 5:1 explicitly means 5 to 1 -- it's a ratio.
Quote: WizardCan the player make normal roulette bets, like red and black, on the spins while the game is in football mode?
I wouldn't see why not.
Quote: BozYou know its a bad game when the Wizard says to play ANYTHING at 5.26% instead of this side bet!
But for a high variance bet, I've definitely seen worse.
Quote: tringlomaneBut for a high variance bet, I've definitely seen worse.
Good point. I've often thought about introducing a new statistic that I'll call the "degenerate gambler quotient" (DGQ) for now as the standard deviation divided by house edge. It would be a measurement of how much thrill you're getting for edge given up.
In the case of the South Point pay table the DGQ is 132.5.
in the paperQuote: WizardGood point. I've often thought about introducing a new statistic that I'll call the "degenerate gambler quotient" (DGQ) for now as the standard deviation divided by house edge. It would be a measurement of how much thrill you're getting for edge given up.
The Rational Gambler by Sahand Rabbani (2010) it is called the Thrill Factor
"as the ratio of its dollar standard deviation per bet to its expected dollar loss per bet: The thrill factor is a positive number."
The Rational Gambler pdf
The Rational Gambler
some fun reading on the subject
Sally
I disagree...
Quote: WizardGood point. I've often thought about introducing a new statistic that I'll call the "degenerate gambler quotient" (DGQ) for now as the standard deviation divided by house edge. It would be a measurement of how much thrill you're getting for edge given up.
In the case of the South Point pay table the DGQ is 132.5.
Interesting concept.
How does 132.5 compare to any other Roulette bet, or a FireBet, or BJ Insurance, etc.?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceDoes that imply that if you have the edge, there is no longer any thrill, since the number becomes negative?
I disagree...
I am definitely thrilled with vulturing Ultimate X this year. But there could be a simple adjustment for this I think. SD / abs(House Edge)
How many do you play on average how much are you up? Feel free to PM me i guess its not a good idea to let casinos know.Quote: tringlomaneI am definitely thrilled with vulturing Ultimate X this year. But there could be a simple adjustment for this I think. SD / abs(House Edge)
I dont know if a guy can make enough money in Vegas doing this the competition is horrible. I have been to a few out of state places that seem to be very lucrative. Perhaps I just caught a lucky time. I was amazed how many were left behind. It can be very fun, its not really the amount of money, its just the fact its free money, like finding flakes of gold in your pan.
Quote: WizardGood point. I've often thought about introducing a new statistic that I'll call the "degenerate gambler quotient" (DGQ) for now as the standard deviation divided by house edge. It would be a measurement of how much thrill you're getting for edge given up.
In the case of the South Point pay table the DGQ is 132.5.
I'd like to know if the DGQ could be applied to sports betting in some way
Quote: AxelWolfHow many do you play on average how much are you up? Feel free to PM me i guess its not a good idea to let casinos know.
I dont know if a guy can make enough money in Vegas doing this the competition is horrible. I have been to a few out of state places that seem to be very lucrative. Perhaps I just caught a lucky time. I was amazed how many were left behind. It can be very fun, its not really the amount of money, its just the fact its free money, like finding flakes of gold in your pan.
You're absolutely right on this one, AxelWolf, opportunities abound at a casino relatively close to me and it is quite lucrative. We're talking about eight total machines, and if I don't go +$20 in a day just on vulturing Ultimate X, (stopping at each machine only once) then I consider that a pretty disappointing day of it. There are so many multipliers left behind that +$20 is basically my minimal expectation for that.
In terms of vulturing Ultimate X in Vegas, exclusively, and making a living...that'd be a pretty poor living. I went out of my way to look for the play everywhere I went, hit dozens of casinos over five days, and that well has absolutely run dry. I probably could have afforded a six-pack of cheap beer on the total amount I came out ahead vulturing UX in five days...with exception to one really good VERY UNEXPECTED hit.
In terms of the EV of the multipliers I found in those five days, maybe +$20-$30 in EV, something like that, over the whole time I was there.
Although, RudeBoiOi taught me a few, and we discovered another easy tell for when they've been looked at, so that's at least a time saver.
Quote: darkozHas the Wiz seen this roulette variant? I was curious about it. I just saw it today installed at both the Caesars and Borgata properties.
It is a regular E-roulette double zero game from Organic with a Football sidebet.
The game has a screen of a football field graphic which keeps track of the Football game.
Here are the rules.
The sidebet can be made at any time except during a "football game". The min. is $1 and max is $5.
If the outcome of any spin is any red or black number then the bet loses.
If the outcome of any spin is green - then the football game is initiated and the bet is locked until the outcome of the next four spins.
The player is asked to pick a team - red or black - if the player does not pick within the time allotted, they will be randomly given a team to root for.
Each spins outcome decides the yardage for the red or black team. The lower the number on the wheel, the less yardage gained. There is a key on the game to show how much yardage, for ex. number 1-10 = 3 yards while 31 - 36 equals fifteen yards.
So if red 7 is the next spin, the red team has gained 3 yards. If the second spin is 31 black, then the black team has gained 15 yards which would put the ball at 12 yards for the black team.
a green spin is no yardage.
At the end of the fourth spin, the position of the ball(that is the football on the graphic - not the position of the roulette ball) determines payouts.
fifty yard line = tie = 5:1
winning team wins are
41 - 49 yards = 10:1
31 - 40 yards = 25:1
21 - 30 yards = 50:1
11 - 20 yards = 75:1
1 - 10 yards = 250:1
touchdown - 500:1
the losing team actually still wins even money.
I'm sure this is a huge house edge sidebet but it seemed like fun and I was curious about it.
EDIT: I JUST DOUBLE CHECKED THE PHOTO IN MY PHONE AND I WAS A BIT BLURRY EYED AT TWO IN THE MORNING. THE PAYOUTS WERE OFF BY ONE YARD, EX. IT,S 1-10, NOT 1-9 AND 11-20, NOT 10-19. I JUST CORRECTED THEM IN THIS POST SO ABOVE IS CORRECT NOW.
Very interesting ... I like!!!
The easier the money, the faster the opportunity dries up. The day will come when you won't even bother looking when you're in the casino. Usually it's either there's too many looking or the fish stop creating opportunity and maybe both. It's really just arbitrage.Quote: tringlomaneThe newer the machines are, the better the opportunity for sure. I definitely wish I would have started doing this sooner. Oh well.
