bigfoot66
bigfoot66
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January 6th, 2014 at 10:58:05 AM permalink
I have been reading some internet reviews of Beyond Counting and a couple mentioned that Grosjean described and advantage play on the Big 6 Wheel, though many suggest that this particular play is dead. Does anyone here know what the method was for this? I can't find it spelled out anywhere and have really been trying to come up with a method on my own to no avail. The only method I can think of is that some dealers might spin the wheel with a relatively consistent force so that you could predict which half of the wheel might be more likely to contain the winner and bet on the joker of that side with a significant edge. Beyond this it seems to me that big 6 and roulette have a lot in common and not sure how to beat either game. The curiosity is killing me! Any ideas?
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sodawater
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January 6th, 2014 at 11:13:13 AM permalink
I once read about big 6 wheel advantage play where they would look for small, weak dealers who spun the wheel with very little force. have no idea if it worked or not.
Zcore13
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January 6th, 2014 at 11:21:07 AM permalink
I think when it first came out they used to spin it only one way also. A player could focus in on a zone if the dealer spun it the same way every time. Now they alternate spinning clockwise and counter-clockwise, which may help prevent spinning the exact same way each spin.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
wudged
wudged
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January 6th, 2014 at 11:45:31 AM permalink
I'm not sure where I read it (could've been here possibly,) but I ran across a story about a casino that let the player spin the wheel themselves!
AxiomOfChoice
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January 6th, 2014 at 11:51:35 AM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

The only method I can think of is that some dealers might spin the wheel with a relatively consistent force so that you could predict which half of the wheel might be more likely to contain the winner and bet on the joker of that side with a significant edge.



That's pretty much it.

The point is not "here's how you can make money playing Big 6". The point is, keep your eyes open and look for opportunities.
FleaStiff
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January 6th, 2014 at 11:56:58 AM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

That's pretty much it.
The point is not "here's how you can make money playing Big 6". The point is, keep your eyes open and look for opportunities.

Remember the Big Six Wheel is the traditional Carney come on at the entrance to the casino, has quite an edge to it but is so boring that it can be a punishment tour for a lazy dealer so the "keep your eyes open" is good advice. Its not that you can clock the wheel but if you can clock one of the two special figures successfully then you will do well.
strictlyAP
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January 6th, 2014 at 11:57:44 AM permalink
i spend at least 15 hours a week walking though casinos to find things like this- there are always new plays that happen and are gone instantly - and even more that i miss daily I wish I could put together a scouting crew strictly to find what I miss
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
Ibeatyouraces
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January 6th, 2014 at 2:40:54 PM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Keyser
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January 6th, 2014 at 5:15:42 PM permalink
Beating the Big Six is about tracking it for bias.


In order to determine if it's worth writing, simply stand to the side of it, rather than in front of it. Watch to see if it's wobbling, meaning moving left and right when viewed from the side. Next look to see if the same amount of the felt stopper is in contact with each pin when the wheel is spinning. Also carefully examine each pin, looking for bent ones. If the wheel shows some variance, then write a few thousand trials to see how the distribution looks and to measure the chi.

-Keyser
gpac1377
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January 6th, 2014 at 5:35:26 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

Beating the Big Six is about tracking it for bias.


But I assume it would be difficult to avoid drawing heat from the casino. What are the typical maximums on a Big Six wheel? I've never noticed.
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Rorry
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January 6th, 2014 at 5:36:20 PM permalink
Awesome, now we're openly talking about The Book eh?
~R
AxiomOfChoice
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January 6th, 2014 at 5:43:48 PM permalink
I've seen max payout of $2000 (so, $50 max on the 40-1 bets). Smaller joints might have smaller payouts.

Personally, I'd think that you'll stick out like a sore thumb playing anything but whites and maybe the occasional red at this game.
gpac1377
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January 6th, 2014 at 6:02:47 PM permalink
Quote: Rorry

Awesome, now we're openly talking about The Book eh?


"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."
AxiomOfChoice
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January 6th, 2014 at 6:10:37 PM permalink
Quote: Rorry

Awesome, now we're openly talking about The Book eh?



I wouldn't worry about it, anyone who matters in a casino has already read it. I picked up my copy for $500 or $600 on Amazon -- not exactly a high bar for a casino looking to protect real money.
Tomspur
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January 6th, 2014 at 6:22:30 PM permalink
There are two main reasons for the play (I would assume). The first would be the dealers being clocked and them not following procedures. They would spin the wheel at exactly the same velocity, no matter which way they spin the wheel.
Secondly another problem that could be identified is the "clapper" at the top of the wheel being set too tight or too loose. This is obviously a manitenance issue but if maintenance is not alereted they will do nothing about it.

You can also cheat the game (which I don't advocate as you will be caught and either 86'ed or arrested). You can past post relatively effectively if the dealers don't have a mirror to look at the winning number or if it sin't done electronically.

This game is just about dead in the US but it is still around in a pretty big way in Asia.
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
Rorry
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January 6th, 2014 at 6:54:55 PM permalink
The more we remind casino's of obscure advantage plays, the more often they are retraining/reminding their dealers and ending what was a good opportunity up until we helped remind the pit to take a closer look at their protection.

PB: "There's an active thread about beating Big Six. Reminds me; let's take a close look at our dealers and make sure we aren't vulnerable."

Me: :(
~R
Ibeatyouraces
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January 6th, 2014 at 6:57:13 PM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
mcallister3200
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January 6th, 2014 at 7:13:02 PM permalink
This is not an obscure advantage play. It is easier to pick off someone doing this than to pick off someone counting.
s2dbaker
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January 6th, 2014 at 7:56:58 PM permalink
I've discovered a way to influence the outcome of the Big 6 wheel through my Wheel Setting™ technique. The book and seminar are just $475.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
djatc
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January 6th, 2014 at 8:01:24 PM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

I've discovered a way to influence the outcome of the Big 6 wheel through my Wheel Setting™ technique. The book and seminar are just $475.



I'll do it for $470 don't listen to s2dbaker I am the real deal I was on the lost episode for breaking vegas
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Tomspur
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January 6th, 2014 at 8:07:03 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

This is not an obscure advantage play. It is easier to pick off someone doing this than to pick off someone counting.



Surveillance still wastes time on either????

I need to get back to Vegas and sort them out :)
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
Ibeatyouraces
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January 6th, 2014 at 8:11:06 PM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Mission146
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January 6th, 2014 at 8:35:55 PM permalink
Quote: gpac1377

But I assume it would be difficult to avoid drawing heat from the casino. What are the typical maximums on a Big Six wheel? I've never noticed.



The spread at The D, as I recall, is $1-$50, if I saw the wheel anywhere else in Vegas, I must not have paid attention. The Meadows either has or had one, funny thing about theirs is that it is in the midst of the other Table Games, I forget the limits, though.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Buzzard
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January 6th, 2014 at 8:36:12 PM permalink
Paying over $400 is ridiculous. I will sell you my used VHS John Patrick tape for $20. Just remember to chart the table first!
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kewlj
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January 6th, 2014 at 9:38:27 PM permalink
In 2012, I added playing 'the wheel' to my attack. The variance gods were with me and I jumped out fast, the first couple of months way above expectation. Then things cooled off some and my win rate plummeted. I ended up winning low 5 figures, which supplemented my BJ income.

But here's some of the issues. Not all casinos here in Vegas have the wheel. Most of the local type places don't. Many casinos on the strip do, but the wheel only operates during busier times, evenings and weekends.

Second issue, it's hard to get any kind of money down. Most players playing the wheel are betting 1-5 dollars. Occasionally you with see a green chip on the even money or 2-1 payoff. Try betting green or black on the longshot payoff and you are drawing immediate attention. You might as well be standing there naked, for as much as you stand out. And yes, there is heat and the same counter measures as counting cards. You will be backed off and barred. The first half of 2012, I had more back offs from the wheel, which I was only playing sparingly than from my blackjack play. This was a major negative for a player who's major focus is longevity and goes to great lengths to keep his play off the radar. All that effort down the drain because I am doing something that stands out on a supplemental game.

Third. If you can get any play in, it's a very, very boring way to make a little money. It's bad enough if you are playing heads up, but if there are other players spreading their $1 and $5 chips around as there often are during the crowded times....forget about it. You get a spin every 2 minutes. Almost as slow as a crowded roulette table. Not quite but you get the picture.

Fourth, the manual wheel is disappearing. The electronic wheel from Aruze, is popping up all over, replacing the manual wheel. I think the wheel, will actually be the first of the manual type games that is completely replaced by electronic version.

In the second half of 2012, I ceased playing the wheel. Just too may negatives. There are easier ways to make a few bucks, with less grief.
AxelWolf
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January 7th, 2014 at 3:22:34 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

In 2012, I added playing 'the wheel' to my attack. The variance gods were with me and I jumped out fast, the first couple of months way above expectation. Then things cooled off some and my win rate plummeted. I ended up winning low 5 figures, which supplemented my BJ income.

But here's some of the issues. Not all casinos here in Vegas have the wheel. Most of the local type places don't. Many casinos on the strip do, but the wheel only operates during busier times, evenings and weekends.

Second issue, it's hard to get any kind of money down. Most players playing the wheel are betting 1-5 dollars. Occasionally you with see a green chip on the even money or 2-1 payoff. Try betting green or black on the longshot payoff and you are drawing immediate attention. You might as well be standing there naked, for as much as you stand out. And yes, there is heat and the same counter measures as counting cards. You will be backed off and barred. The first half of 2012, I had more back offs from the wheel, which I was only playing sparingly than from my blackjack play. This was a major negative for a player who's major focus is longevity and goes to great lengths to keep his play off the radar. All that effort down the drain because I am doing something that stands out on a supplemental game.

Third. If you can get any play in, it's a very, very boring way to make a little money. It's bad enough if you are playing heads up, but if there are other players spreading their $1 and $5 chips around as there often are during the crowded times....forget about it. You get a spin every 2 minutes. Almost as slow as a crowded roulette table. Not quite but you get the picture.

Fourth, the manual wheel is disappearing. The electronic wheel from Aruze, is popping up all over, replacing the manual wheel. I think the wheel, will actually be the first of the manual type games that is completely replaced by electronic version.

In the second half of 2012, I ceased playing the wheel. Just too may negatives. There are easier ways to make a few bucks, with less grief.

What kind of edge do you think you were getting over all?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
kewlj
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January 7th, 2014 at 9:35:51 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

What kind of edge do you think you were getting over all?



I really don't want to get into that. I just wanted to make the point that, the mathematical opportunity is there on paper, but when you attempt to apply the technique in real life, there are some road blocks which will severely limit this opportunity.
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