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rKelly
rKelly
Joined: May 18, 2013
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May 27th, 2013 at 8:12:10 PM permalink
Has anyone ever heard of this? Do you think this is a good idea to create a deeper level of penetration in prevention of dragon/panda counting systems or would their be some negative repercussion?
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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May 27th, 2013 at 8:38:57 PM permalink
There'd be negative repercussions:

1. Baccarat has standards and conventions, and the eight-deck shoe is pretty much written in stone for casino operators.
2. Bacc players are very set in their ways, and mistrustful of game procedure changes.
3. The Panda-8 and Dragon-7 are fairly hard to count as it is.
4. Casinos would sooner reduce penetration on existing 8-deck shoes. These side bets aren't particularly countable until the last few hands.
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tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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May 27th, 2013 at 8:54:17 PM permalink
Yeah, definitely agree with Dan. Eight is considered particularly lucky in Chinese culture as well. The Beijing Olympics Opening Ceremony began on 8/8/08 at 08:08:08pm.
rKelly
rKelly
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May 27th, 2013 at 10:16:50 PM permalink
I can see this being a factor, I was just wondering how deep the attachment was to the length of a shoe. I am personally unsure that an increase in the length of a shoe to disrupt their attachment to the game, but I do appreciate the opinion of others.

What about a 9 deck shoe? I know 9 is particularly lucky in Chinese culture.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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May 27th, 2013 at 10:25:33 PM permalink
Quote: rKelly

I can see this being a factor, I was just wondering how deep the attachment was to the length of a shoe. I am personally unsure that an increase in the length of a shoe to disrupt their attachment to the game, but I do appreciate the opinion of others.

What about a 9 deck shoe? I know 9 is particularly lucky in Chinese culture.



A good way to find out the casino's (or players') attachment to the length of a Baccarat shoe being eight decks long, is to go into a casino and ask them to start dealing nine-deck Baccarat shoes, and see what they say.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
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May 27th, 2013 at 10:59:20 PM permalink
Quote: rKelly

What about a 9 deck shoe? I know 9 is particularly lucky in Chinese culture.


Not like the number 8.
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rKelly
rKelly
Joined: May 18, 2013
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May 27th, 2013 at 11:52:14 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

A good way to find out the casino's (or players') attachment to the length of a Baccarat shoe being eight decks long, is to go into a casino and ask them to start dealing nine-deck Baccarat shoes, and see what they say.



LOL simple, yet elegant.
egalite
egalite
Joined: Dec 30, 2011
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June 28th, 2013 at 1:11:41 AM permalink
In the UK most Baccarat games utilise 6 decks. In London there are one or two casinos that used 8 decks.

Recently a provincial casino trialled 8 decks and the patrons didn't like it. Not sure why, perhaps it took longer between going outside for a smoke, so the 8 deck game was ditched.

Having played both type of shoes fairly extensively, I did prefer the 8 deck games, although now it would probably be strange seeing a shoe churn out 70+ hands.

I find 6 deck games really strange in respect to expected streak length frequency. Some with dubious intent often throw around expectational nonsense about how often you should expect to see certain streak lengths, the number of singles, repeats, you should expect to encounter on average. These kind of stats simply do not apply to a six deck shoe or series of shoes, if indeed they apply to an 8 deck game.

I've had a six deck session were nearly every shoe (6~8 in total) produced a streak length of at least 10, multiple long streaks of 8 or more in a 50 hand sample and it goes on.

The Punto side dominating the Banco results, 6 shoes from 8 for successive nights, this does occur often. Whereas with an 8 deck game, I recall this occurring about once in every 10 shoes. Length of repeating patterns being the same as 8 deck games, despite there being fewer cards and less hands played.

Find it hard to explain why and I just put it down to "despite the ratios being the same"; fewer cards equals fewer variables being called upon, i.e 24 x a card value, compared to 32, using the latter and IMO you end up with less craziness and I've seen many bizarre six deck shoes / sessions, is the best way I would describe it.
98Clubs
98Clubs
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
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July 31st, 2013 at 12:16:03 AM permalink
8-deck game is standard. I think your penetration concerns are unfounded for the most part. If I toss around some "Normal" Stats, In an 8 deck shoe;

a.) stop-card placed 13 from end is typical
b.) the average burn is 6.5 cards
c.) the average round uses 4.9388 cards
d.) using the math more precisely defined at the WoO site (Baccarat --> Appendix 1), there will be 80.27 rounds dealt. That is, 80 complete rounds, 1 card from the 81st round, the stop-card, completion of the 81st round, followed by the final 82nd round ( 4 cards remain ). Penetration on average is 416 - (4 + 6.5) = 405.5 / 416 or 97.476%

This presumes all standard practices are followed. YRMV due to cut-card and burn.
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