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beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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March 8th, 2017 at 12:53:42 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

It's "fold over 20," isn't it?

Also, if you want to expand it a little:
Add 8 if there is 4 to an open-ended straight on the board
Add 4 if there is 4 to an inside straight on the board (including AKQJ and 432A)
Add 9 if there is 4 to a flush on the board
Two Pair on the board is 7 if the fifth card is higher than the low pair, or 4 if the fifth card is lower than the low pair
(reason: with, say, 9 9 7 5 5, a 7 gives the dealer 9 9 7 7 to your 9 9 5 5, but with 9 9 7 7 5, a 5 does not improve the hand)
Three Of A Kind - 7
Straight, Flush, Full House - always bet; there will never be more than 20 outs
Four of a Kind - 0

Also, when counting "missing ranks", skip anything that makes a straight on the board, and stop when you get to either the lowest rank on the board or the higher of your two cards. If the board is A Q Q J 9 and you have 7-5, an 8 is not going to do the dealer any good, so that is only 19 outs; play the hand.



Yeah, I should have said stop/fold at 21. Funny how hard it is to get to 21, though. 11-15-19-23-27 are the most common totals I see unless it's an exception hand, so I just use 21 as a threshold. Maybe once I counted to exactly 21.

I was trying to cover the vast majority of kicker hands very simply. You're correct on your notes, and those considerations should be added immediately, or as soon as the OP or anyone feels ready to get more precise on their strategy. But those board hands are relatively rare, and while it's very lucrative to recognize them as they occur, especially when you should play the board for a push, it's not that simple to learn.

Worth digging in, absolutely. But from what I've seen people misplay in both directions, if they just follow as much as I listed,.they'll be way ahead of most punters already. Then add your details. And be sure to recognize when they should play the board for a push regardless.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
Romes
Romes
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RisingDough
March 8th, 2017 at 12:57:53 PM permalink
Easy Strategy for a beginner/newbie for UTH:

Pre-flop:
- Bet Any Ace.
- Bet Any King.
- Bet Any Queen with an 8 or better
- Bet any 2 10 valued cards (from blackajck)
- Bet any pair bigger than 2's.

Flop/River:
- Bet if you've hit any pair or better.
- Bet if you have 5 "different" cards you can "beat" with your kicker.

No, this is not optimal BS, but it should be pretty simple... It should be named "Bet Big Stuff and Pairs"
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Deucekies
Deucekies
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March 8th, 2017 at 2:38:32 PM permalink
Interesting. You're simple strategy has people betting K2o, K3o, and K4o. What's worse: checking marginal 4-betters, or 4-betting marginal hands you shouldn't?
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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March 8th, 2017 at 6:45:48 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

Interesting. You're simple strategy has people betting K2o, K3o, and K4o. What's worse: checking marginal 4-betters, or 4-betting marginal hands you shouldn't?



I think it's better to err on the side of checking. Remember k5, and you've covered 96% or so without over betting.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
miplet
miplet
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March 8th, 2017 at 8:09:12 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I think it's better to err on the side of checking. Remember k5, and you've covered 96% or so without over betting.


I'll do the math later, but if you don't want to distinguish suited and unsuited hands, k4 looks like the cut off from just eyeballing the change in ev and frequency. You also can't screw up post flop and river bets if you've already bet.
Romes
Romes
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March 10th, 2017 at 8:18:48 AM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

Interesting. You're simple strategy has people betting K2o, K3o, and K4o. What's worse: checking marginal 4-betters, or 4-betting marginal hands you shouldn't?

While K-3 off is not a bet, K-5 off is. If you understand poker very well the difference between betting these hands against what you're assuming is the average dealer hand (Q-7 is the average hand heads up) is minutely minimal. Error on the side of aggression is "usually" better for newbies because I've pretty much never seen someone be too aggressive in this game (UTH) while 99.99% of the time I see players missing out on EV by being too UNDER aggressive in this game (UTH).

Do you know why you bet K-5 and not K-3? When you turn the cards over the majority of the time your King high card is the best hand pre-flop... Quite similar to an ace but an ace is regarded as more powerful. Kings can be too in a game like this (not real poker per-say). The difference between the 5 and the 3 will actually punish the player <1% of the time... a VERY small margin. The MASSSSSS majority of the time the hand plays exactly the same from K-5 to K-2.

Also, the strategy for UTH is based on a heads up game, where the "computer hand" (Q-7) is the average dealer hand. However, the more players at the table the more the average hand will raise. So while the other players are independent from your hand/action, having more players at the table actually raises the average hand for the table, and the dealer is part of that.

If someone isn't going to commit to learning perfect BS for the game, I definitely would stick with my simple recommendation as it doesn't get in to kickers (for the most part) which is probably why they didn't want to learn BS to begin with.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Wulfgar1224
Wulfgar1224
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March 19th, 2017 at 7:04:11 PM permalink
As a follow up on this thread, I just got back from Las Vegas and played some UTH for the first time. Honestly, the strategy really didn't take me that long to figure out. After about an hour of play, I could pretty much do the 21 out rule with no problem. I learned much quicker than I had thought.

I did hear some comments from people that told me that I raised too much preflop and that I shouldn't bet 4x on something like Q-9. I was taken back with how poorly prepared people are playing some of these games. I guess it is just my personality. But, I couldn't put up my money on a game if I had no idea what was going on at all. A lot of the UTH people were checking on Ace cards preflop but then they'd call on the river on bad kickers. It was mind boggling. All in all, I said say UTH was worth learning. But, i still prefer playing the tiles to be honest.
Romes
Romes
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March 21st, 2017 at 11:56:04 AM permalink
Wulfgar, your results sound pretty typical. Stuff it in on J-10 suited and people look at you like you just escaped from the loony bin... while you watch them check things like A-J, or even something like pocket 10's! I've often asked why and it's similar to blackjack "Always think the dealer has 10 under" bs... When I ask why they say "Oh this time he'll have the ace and catch it, just watch." I've made a couple side bets with people over things like this, and lol, they're fun but wow high percentage advantage bets =P.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Wulfgar1224
Wulfgar1224
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March 21st, 2017 at 7:26:13 PM permalink
Well, yeah I expected to hear comments. But, I really didn't expect the play from others to be as poor as it was. I would say probably 90% of the people never read a strategy guide at all and just played off of the cuff. I did want to add that the trips side bet was where I heard more comments as well. I was usually the only one at the table that never played it. Sometimes, the dealers would comment that I should play it since that is where the money is. I take that with a grain of salt since I know it is part of their job to encourage side bets.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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March 21st, 2017 at 7:33:38 PM permalink
Quote: Wulfgar1224

Well, yeah I expected to hear comments. But, I really didn't expect the play from others to be as poor as it was. I would say probably 90% of the people never read a strategy guide at all and just played off of the cuff. I did want to add that the trips side bet was where I heard more comments as well. I was usually the only one at the table that never played it. Sometimes, the dealers would comment that I should play it since that is where the money is. I take that with a grain of salt since I know it is part of their job to encourage side bets.


Of all casino games, I'd say this one probably is played the poorest by the civilians. Mississippi Stud is a close second.
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"

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