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Legal dispute over jackpot hinges on sticky note deal

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Poll
3 votes (16.66%)
11 votes (61.11%)
4 votes (22.22%)
No votes (0%)

18 members have voted

October 10th, 2011 at 12:09:34 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 14, 2009
Threads: 310
Posts: 6733
Discussing gambling disputes is a common topic here. In that light, the LVRJ has an article today over a jackpot sharing deal on a Megabucks jackpot. Here is the article: Legal dispute over jackpot hinges on sticky note deal.

As the article says, the first party asked the second party to bet $6 on Megabucks. He gave her an article about the game and put a sticky note on saying something to the effect to split any winnings. What happens next depends on whose version you believe.

Either the second party lost the $6 and played some more with her own money, at which point she won the jackpot. Another possibility is that the $6 produced a small win, and from that the jackpot was won, based on reinvesting the small win back into the machine. The first party seems to be saying it doesn't matter, as they had a deal to split ANY winnings.

For purposes of the poll, let's say for the sake of argument that the second party hit the jackpot with her own money. How would you rule?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
October 10th, 2011 at 12:28:33 PM permalink
DJTeddyBear
Member since: Nov 2, 2009
Threads: 105
Posts: 5691
Quote: LVRJ, Paragraph 6
That's where the plan fell apart. She told Perrin she lost his $6, striking it rich only with her own money.
Quote: LVRJ, Paragraph 11
One of Perrin's attorneys told the station that Walker admitted under oath that Perrin's $6 turned into $15 in credits, and that she kept playing until she hit the jackpot.
In my opinion, these two statements are contradictory. Or at least vague.

Did she play the $15 down to zero, reload, and then hit the jackpot? Or was she playing with the $15 winnings (or subsequent winnings) when she hit?


Quote: Wizard
For purposes of the poll, let's say for the sake of argument that the second party hit the jackpot with her own money. How would you rule?
In that scenario, it's her money. The fact that the other person encouraged her and/or 'taught' her the game is irrelevant.


Quote: Wizard
For purposes of the poll, let's say ...
In that case, the third poll choice is invalid.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood?
October 10th, 2011 at 12:30:28 PM permalink
rudeboyoi
Member since: Mar 28, 2010
Threads: 17
Posts: 577
her money. her jackpot.

friendships ruined regardless. if second party gives half, shes gonna feel cheated. if first party doesnt get half, hes gonna feel cheated.
October 10th, 2011 at 12:30:49 PM permalink
MathExtremist
Member since: Aug 31, 2010
Threads: 45
Posts: 2514
According to part of that article:
"One of Perrin's attorneys told the station that Walker admitted under oath that Perrin's $6 turned into $15 in credits, and that she kept playing until she hit the jackpot."
We don't know whether those $15 in credits were what yielded the win or whether Walker had to rebuy after that, but a quick check of the past play history on the machine (which hopefully was saved) would be able to check.

However, the deal that the winnings be split is, I think, important. Normally it's "you're going to Vegas? Put $5 on Red for me and let me know how I do." I don't think it's reasonable for Walker to assert, given her history of past lottery play with Perrin, that the intent of the wagers on Megabucks was for anything other than a split. To wit: if she had hit the jackpot with the first $3 wagered, technically Perrin's money, she would not have understood that the jackpot should belong solely to Perrin.

I suppose one could make a proportional argument based on handle played: let H_P be the total handle of wagers resulting from Perrin's original $6, and we know that's at least $21 from the article ($6 original, $15 in winnings, presumably those were played prior to the jackpot hitting). And let H_W be the total handle of wagers resulting from any buy-in Walker made after Perrin's original $6 was exhausted. Then you could apportion the jackpot as Walker = H_W / (H_P + H_W) and Perrin = H_P / (H_P + H_W). But still, that doesn't properly account for the original agreement that the jackpot be "split". For example, if Walker was still playing Perrin's original $6 when the jackpot hit, she'd get nothing under that formula.

I think it will come down to judicial discretion. If Walker played for 10 hours on $100s of her own money after exhausting Perrin's $6, it doesn't make much sense to split the jackpot. However, it seems as if Walker won shortly after commencing play, as the story seems to indicate: "I was on my way to my room when I saw this machine and decided to play," the player was quoted in the statement from IGT. She told IGT she thought the slot machine had malfunctioned after lining up the Megabucks symbols, but her niece realized that she had won $12,769,933." If so, it seems counter to the spirit of the agreement that the jackpot not be split.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
October 10th, 2011 at 12:35:38 PM permalink
7outlineaway
Member since: Nov 13, 2009
Threads: 9
Posts: 276
Nevada law says the jackpot goes to the person pushing the button, right? So award the jackpot to the the button-pusher (Walker) thus fulfilling the obligations of the casino and the Megabucks consortium. Anything after that is a matter of contract law between the two parties (Perrin and Walker).

Under your conditions (Walker plays with her own money), and not having any further information, I'd award the whole thing to Walker. If records show Walker kept playing at the same machine after winning the $15, and didn't put any more of her own money in, I'd order they split it. I would also order they split if Walker left the machine and played later inserting a slot ticket with the $15. The issue gets messier if she mixed some of her own money with that won from Perrin's original $6, but I would still award Perrin an amount proportional to his "investment".
October 10th, 2011 at 12:38:35 PM permalink
CrystalMath
Member since: May 10, 2011
Threads: 3
Posts: 474
Quote: Wizard
For purposes of the poll, let's say for the sake of argument that the second party hit the jackpot with her own money. How would you rule?


If it was her own money, then she should get the prize. But, how in the world can you prove it? If she were using a player card, it might be possible to track down coin in (bets) and coin out (wins) information during the winning session, but I doubt you could track drop (bills or tickets inserted). If she inserted $6 in cash and hit the jackpot, that's not too good for her. What if she inserted $9? Which $3 is hers, or do they split the prize based on the cash inserted. What if she inserted $100 because she used the $6 for tips already. Now, we would need to know how much of her money she intended to use? It would be unfair to credit her with 94% of the win if she intended to cashout when she got down to $94.

Lesson learned: don't ever gamble for other people.
I heart Crystal Math.
October 10th, 2011 at 12:43:53 PM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Nov 9, 2009
Threads: 173
Posts: 2404
IMO Perrin's attempt at a contract should not be considered valid; if Texas law says otherwise I don't agree with it.

What an idiot. Of course he had to trust her totally ... turns out he shouldnt have. And I don't even blame her.
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." Mark Twain
October 10th, 2011 at 12:44:32 PM permalink
boymimbo
Member since: Nov 12, 2009
Threads: 12
Posts: 2533
Agree with 7out.

The directive said $6, split any winnings. Walker agreed by playing with the $6. The $6 won $15 At that point, the player decided that the winnings were to be split by playing out the credits. If she had cashed out the $15 and then put her own money in, she would not be responsible. But Walker didn't. Inotherwords, the credits were the split winnings, and therefore, the jackpot was split winnings. If the credits had run out and the person put in more money, the winnings are no longer split and the jackpot is entirely Walkers. Still, I would give the friend some of the money.

The friend should pay the other friend 1/2 of the proceeds after taxes and accountant fees if the $6 was responsible for the jackpot. Otherwise it's Walkers.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
October 10th, 2011 at 12:52:38 PM permalink
Boz
Member since: Sep 22, 2011
Threads: 11
Posts: 142
Just more reasons to never, ever take money from a friend to gamble in Vegas. Nothing good ever comes from it!
October 10th, 2011 at 12:56:23 PM permalink
buzzpaff
Member since: Mar 8, 2011
Threads: 82
Posts: 2830
The friend should pay the other friend 1/2 of the proceeds after taxes and accountant fees if the $6 was responsible for the jackpot.

I would fing the only defense against this was is she went to her room, wrote out a check for $7.50 and mailed it to her friend before using the $15 credit. I see no problem here , only than a legal one. If she was playing on the original $6 investment, she owes her partner half. Notice I said PARTNER, not FRIEND!
Buzz Paff
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