tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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November 9th, 2015 at 3:31:03 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

According to a person that I know that is knowledgeable enough to know these things, actual paybacks for video poker at the Airport are known to go below state minimums of 75% as a result of enough players choosing bad enough cards that result in a below-state-minimum payback.



Via a annual basis of payback per machine, I would bet a lot that he's wrong. Worst I've seen at mccarran is 94.18% with optimal play. You have to play quite badly to be sub 75% long term.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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November 9th, 2015 at 3:56:56 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

According to a person that I know that is knowledgeable enough to know these things, actual paybacks for video poker at the Airport are known to go below state minimums of 75% as a result of enough players choosing bad enough cards that result in a below-state-minimum payback.

This can never happen with our NanoTech Gaming games or any games that don't give players any choices except how much to bet, but this despicable result can happen with video poker (a return that is so anemic due to choosing to hold the wrong cards that it should be against the law IMO) as well as in craps (when playing the pass line after the four or ten is set as the point).

What I find despicable about this is that a very large portion of the states gaming revenue is made as a result of mistakes made that there is no benefit given to those who don't make those mistakes.

IMO, the hold percentage should not be greater as a result of the lack of aggregate skill of all players. But that's just my own personal opinion. When it goes below state minimum paybacks, that is when I am left scratching my head whether or not the state is paying attention to what is happening when it comes to their job of protecting players from settings that are what I would consider to be predatory in nature.

I will have to look closer next time but I didn't see 6/5 type pay-tables at the airport. I think under 75% would be abnormal. CET actually has some of the worst pay-tables at the bars 6/5 Job on $5 denominations at the bar that's shameful.

lucky for me people can play horrible on VP or everything would be set to 6/5.

I always wonder how well a casino would do if they aggressively advertised certified higher paybacks on slots and VP of no less than 95% up to FP and good BJ rules.

At one time Fiesta had lots of good FP VP and ran promotions I'm not sure how well they did during that time but it was very popular among locals.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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November 9th, 2015 at 4:01:12 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Via a annual basis of payback per machine, I would bet a lot that he's wrong. Worst I've seen at mccarran is 94.18% with optimal play. You have to play quite badly to be sub 75% long term.

+1. me to. We just need someone with a key and then check 10 random VP machines, I would give odds none would be under 75% probably wouldn't find one under 85%
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
GWAE
GWAE
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November 9th, 2015 at 5:04:30 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I will have to look closer next time but I didn't see 6/5 type pay-tables at the airport. I think under 75% would be abnormal. CET actually has some of the worst pay-tables at the bars 6/5 Job on $5 denominations at the bar that's shameful.

lucky for me people can play horrible on VP or everything would be set to 6/5.

I always wonder how well a casino would do if they aggressively advertised certified higher paybacks on slots and VP of no less than 95% up to FP and good BJ rules.

At one time Fiesta had lots of good FP VP and ran promotions I'm not sure how well they did during that time but it was very popular among locals.



A casino that I know has been advertising 98%. They even advertise it in the casino and strategically place the signs above machines that are no where close to 98%.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
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November 9th, 2015 at 6:10:12 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh


....
IMO, the hold percentage should not be greater as a result of the lack of aggregate skill of all players. But that's just my own personal opinion. When it goes below state minimum paybacks, that is when I am left scratching my head whether or not the state is paying attention to what is happening when it comes to their job of protecting players from settings that are what I would consider to be predatory in nature.



This is a nice sentiment, but the hold percentage is completely dependent on the skill of the players on any game with a decision point, including BJ, virtually all carnival table games, all VP. I think it goes to the heart of the WoO purpose, in trying to educate gamblers on optimal strategy and true odds. I have to disagree that it should be illegal for casinos to offer such games but I do think casinos should be required to provide House Way strategy cards, HE stats, and disclose their true take (not just theoretical) on machines and games, not just by area, or even by casino, but by individual slot/VP game/table game by type in their building. Beyond that, caveat emptor.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
Kentry
Kentry
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November 9th, 2015 at 6:32:28 PM permalink
I agree with you that the Lottery has bad odds. I bought 30 $2 scratch off tickets, and got only half my money back. Stinky odds.
sabre
sabre
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November 9th, 2015 at 7:03:53 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

According to a person that I know that is knowledgeable enough to know these things, actual paybacks for video poker at the Airport are known to go below state minimums of 75% as a result of enough players choosing bad enough cards that result in a below-state-minimum payback.



This is an absurd statement.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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November 10th, 2015 at 5:21:42 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

A casino that I know has been advertising 98%. They even advertise it in the casino and strategically place the signs above machines that are no where close to 98%.

I know a few places like that. One place still says 99% paybacks. It's not even close. However At one time(years ago) they did have 99.5% with a good card and bonuses.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
thegamblingmath
thegamblingmath
Joined: Jun 18, 2017
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June 18th, 2017 at 3:34:35 AM permalink
Yes a lot in Online Asian casinos because there is no regulatory commission here unlike in UK (Gambling Commission).
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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June 18th, 2017 at 4:23:16 AM permalink
Quote: Goethe

I've just seen Mr Shackleford interviewed as part of the Australian Broadcasing Corp's documentary "Ka-Ching: Pokie Nation", an investigation into the spread of the "pokies" across Oz. In it he comments that he feels sorry for the slots players in Australia, as the average RTP is usually between 85%-90%.

I've not seen the article/broadcast but in Australia words such as casino, hotel, Shelia, etc. have different meanings than in the USA.

Many of the slot machines are located in service clubs which can often be major economic enterprises in a town sporting bars, restaurants, gyms, function rooms, etc. as well as a variety of slot machines.

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