Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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March 24th, 2015 at 12:46:09 PM permalink
Quote: zoobrew

Are the amount of the bonus win also determined at the time the spin button is pressed? Lets says I have the choice of choosing A, B or C, will I win $10 no matter which letter I choose or does A=5, B=10, or C=20 and my choice determines the amount of the win.

Also if you win free spins on a bonus, do you win a predetermined amount of money or is every spin a new random event?

Are the answers to these questions determined by the slot manufacture or the state gaming commission?

Are all those people who pull their slot card out of the machine when they hit a bonus, wasting their time trying to keep the casino from knowing about their winnings?



Bonus rounds can be a different story. Some are predetermined, some you actually do have choice in what happens and the long term payouts are just based on statistical chances.

There was once a dragon themed slot where you got to go down a road in the bonus. Each section had 4 choices. On the first section of 4, There were 3 spots that let you advance to the next section. I think 3 out of 4 were good again. Then 2 and then 1. Choice made a difference. I like those kind of bonuses.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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March 24th, 2015 at 1:00:02 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I am not going to jump on you but I will say that I have programmed games for many large slot machine manufacturers and that I haven't seen one in the last 15 years where stopping the reels early gives a different result.

Is it possible that you can change the outcome of the symbols but not the pay?

Ok that sounds strange let me see if I can explain. Lest say it normally takes 2 seconds for all the reels to stop if you don't stop it yourself.
Let's assume the slot chooses the NUMBER OF CREDITS within a RANGE that you will recive right when you hit spin(range 300 to 400 but not an exact amount ). Is it possible that they allow many different combinations of the pre determined amounts to appear in that 2 seconds, so you are actually changing the symbols and pays slightly but it doesn't matter because no matter what you will land within that range because that's the only possible combinations?

This is how I would set it up make it so you have SOME control, but nothing significant, I would make it 80% to 97% allow for 17% worth of control /skill if you just let it spin out you automatically receive 85%.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
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March 24th, 2015 at 1:31:46 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Is it possible that you can change the outcome of the symbols but not the pay?


I don't think being able to control when the reels stop is allowed in a slot machine - at least, not in Nevada:

Quote: Nevada Gaming Control Board Regulation 14.040(2)(b)

For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in a position in any game outcome must be constant.


I don't see how the bold part is possible if the player has any true control over when the reels stop.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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March 24th, 2015 at 2:41:11 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

I don't think being able to control when the reels stop is allowed in a slot machine - at least, not in Nevada:

Quote: Nevada Gaming Control Board Regulation 14.040(2)(b)

For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in a position in any game outcome must be constant.


I don't see how the bold part is possible if the player has any true control over when the reels stop.

Next time you are in a casino look at some slots that have stacked symbols ( like wild symbols) that have nearly instant auto stop (not IGT). It's like a long movie reel filled with many pre arranged pictures of stacked blocks. Sometimes they are even a 6 to 12 inch character (like a goddess or god)

I cant explain well, but if you see the bottom of of a stacked wild (or whatever) coming down and quickly hit stop, the top stacked wild seemingly lands on the bottom payline often . However if you just sit and let it pass then it's unlikely you could have trapped it because now its gone and that block isn't coming back around.

I'M not clamming the payout outcome changes but something is happening there. Obviously it's not going to let you time wilds landing.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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March 24th, 2015 at 3:14:24 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Is it possible that you can change the outcome of the symbols but not the pay?



I am not familiar with any that do that. Generally when you start the game the reel stops are what is chosen by the RNG. When you press the button to stop the reels a mechanical slot will continue to spin until that reel position is visible. A video slot will just change the next three symbols above the screen to the selected outcome and then drop those three symbols into the visible portion of the screen.
Dieter
Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
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March 25th, 2015 at 6:53:01 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

I don't think being able to control when the reels stop is allowed in a slot machine - at least, not in Nevada:

Quote: Nevada Gaming Control Board Regulation 14.040(2)(b)

For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in a position in any game outcome must be constant.


I don't see how the bold part is possible if the player has any true control over when the reels stop.



I'll agree that "not in Nevada". My understanding is that some jurisdictions allow (require?) a "skill stop" feature, which does affect the outcome.


... and Class II is completely different in other ways.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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March 25th, 2015 at 7:31:19 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: ThatDonGuy

I don't think being able to control when the reels stop is allowed in a slot machine - at least, not in Nevada:

Quote: Nevada Gaming Control Board Regulation 14.040(2)(b)

For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in a position in any game outcome must be constant.


I don't see how the bold part is possible if the player has any true control over when the reels stop.



I'll agree that "not in Nevada". My understanding is that some jurisdictions allow (require?) a "skill stop" feature, which does affect the outcome.


... and Class II is completely different in other ways.



Japanese casinos are "skill stop" machines, but trust me, they don't have any skill factor. You get to stop the reels, but everything is still pre-programmed at payout percentages and the stopping does not affect them. I imported, re-furbished and sold these machines. I could have made a killing if they were true skill stops. They are not. And there are none in the U.S. that allow skill to play.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Dieter
Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
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March 25th, 2015 at 7:53:26 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

I could have made a killing if they were true skill stops. They are not. And there are none in the U.S. that allow skill to play.



Then they're not skill stops, they're a manner of abbreviating the entertainment display of the game.

If it's a skill stop, you have a degree of control.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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March 25th, 2015 at 8:00:19 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Then they're not skill stops, they're a manner of abbreviating the entertainment display of the game.

If it's a skill stop, you have a degree of control.



Well you can say they are not skill stops, but that is their name. They are called skill stop slot machines. I guess the skill is pushing the 3 different buttons to stop the reels. There are some really fun games, but the skill is not in making winning combinations show up on the reels.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
ncfatcat
ncfatcat
Joined: Jun 25, 2011
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March 25th, 2015 at 8:36:02 AM permalink
If I owned a casino I'd encourage patrons to use skill stops ;o)
Gambling is a metaphor for life. Hang around long enough and it's all gone.

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