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Rock Around the Clock

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December 28th, 2012 at 9:39:10 PM permalink
Venthus
Member since: Dec 10, 2012
Threads: 11
Posts: 387
Quote: Mission146
That's awesome! I want to go to Temecula!


Hour north of San Diego and two hours east of LA, or somewhere around that.

There's basically 5 casinos within a 15-minute radius, all with different styles so you can pack up and move if you feel your luck has turned. (If you believe in luck.) One perk is that three of them also have self-serve soda fountains. Unfortunately, you have to pay for alcoholic drinks down here.

Quote:
Do you know how much that Bet For Rescue option is? There would easily be a point that it was worth Betting For Rescue just based on the $30.00 alone, especially if you played/watched the machine enough to get a good idea of natural bonus frequency.


Not exactly. Once insurance is turned on, it can't be turned off, so you have to run all 200 [or whatever number it was...] spins with it on. I remember thinking that the free cash was either 3/4ths or 2/3rds the insurance, so it was a pretty good deal. One woman I saw playing it at max bet kept going up and down for HOURS, always between 1000-2000.

I was milling around for maybe two hours (I, uh, strictly control my bankroll by only bringing a certain amount of cash...) and insurance only hit once. She wasn't playing particularly quickly though, she might stop for five minutes after a spin to chat with a friend.

I'd recommend against basing any serious analysis of this unit off my numbers though; they're mostly based on what I recall fro a trip a month back or so. Might be heading down there in the near future though, so I can take photos/notes if you'd like. (Same for the Bonus Time unit.)
December 28th, 2012 at 10:32:41 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: May 15, 2012
Threads: 75
Posts: 5792
Quote: Venthus
Hour north of San Diego and two hours east of LA, or somewhere around that.

There's basically 5 casinos within a 15-minute radius, all with different styles so you can pack up and move if you feel your luck has turned. (If you believe in luck.) One perk is that three of them also have self-serve soda fountains. Unfortunately, you have to pay for alcoholic drinks down here.


Cool! I guess I'll just hope to make it out to California one of these days, but I doubt it.

I don't believe that the casinos may give away free alcoholic drinks in Ohio, though the closest casino to me is in West Virginia. I've been offered a free drink here and there at that place, but they're not as liberal about it as they used to be. I don't mind because I'd never drink more than one drink anyway.

Quote:
Not exactly. Once insurance is turned on, it can't be turned off, so you have to run all 200 [or whatever number it was...] spins with it on. I remember thinking that the free cash was either 3/4ths or 2/3rds the insurance, so it was a pretty good deal. One woman I saw playing it at max bet kept going up and down for HOURS, always between 1000-2000.


That's what I'm thinking, it's a great deal, and we might be able to figure something out if we can get more specifics on it. I'm thinking that if the Free Cash was 3/4ths of the amount of the insurance bet based on 200 spins, and say that's $0.20/bet for $40.00 based on 200 spins so $30 insurance pay, then you would want to turn on the insurance at any point at which:

y * [(200 - x) * -.20] + (z * $30) <= 0

Where y represents the probability of Naturally hitting a Bonus Game in the remaining spins prior to 200 and x is the number of spins without a hit while z is the probability of NOT hitting the bonus games within the number of spins remaining. If we were to establish that 160 games had gone by without a Bonus and the result was an 80% probability of not hitting v. a 20% probability of hitting, then:

y * [ 40 * -.20] + (.8 * $30)

.2 * -$8 + ($24)

-$1.60 + $24 = $22.40

There would be a huge advantage in making the Insurance bet in this scenario, but again, to determine the exact point we would need the amount of the Insurance bet, the amount guaranteed to be won for having a successful Insurance bet, and a general idea of the probability of hitting the Free Games.


Quote:
I was milling around for maybe two hours (I, uh, strictly control my bankroll by only bringing a certain amount of cash...) and insurance only hit once. She wasn't playing particularly quickly though, she might stop for five minutes after a spin to chat with a friend.


That's definitely a good way to keep the bankroll under control! You can't gamble what you don't have with you.

Quote:
I'd recommend against basing any serious analysis of this unit off my numbers though; they're mostly based on what I recall fro a trip a month back or so. Might be heading down there in the near future though, so I can take photos/notes if you'd like. (Same for the Bonus Time unit.)


That's an awesome offer, thank you! I doubt if you would have enough of a sample size to get an idea of how frequently Free Games naturally occur, so the best place for us to start is probably by figuring out the actual amount of the insurance bet and that amount guaranteed to be won. I think we're pretty good on the Bonus Time unit for right now.
On Revel: "It is a silvery, soaring monument to a stream of bad decisions."-Philly.com
December 28th, 2012 at 10:52:26 PM permalink
tringlomane
Member since: Aug 25, 2012
Threads: 2
Posts: 3274
Quote: Mission146
Cool! I guess I'll just hope to make it out to California one of these days, but I doubt it.

I don't believe that the casinos may give away free alcoholic drinks in Ohio, though the closest casino to me is in West Virginia.


Yes, it is illegal to serve free alcohol in Ohio casinos, along with a majority of the Midwest (MO, IL, IN, KS are other examples). It's a significant factor on why I seem to go to Tunica or Vegas about once a quarter!
December 30th, 2012 at 12:12:30 AM permalink
Ardent1
Member since: Dec 19, 2012
Threads: 5
Posts: 168
Quote: Mission146
Machine-Rock Around the Clock (Advantage Revolution) 3-Reel

Manufacturer-KONAMI

Is there an advantage to Max Betting?

It seems that the base payouts are perfectly graduated, so I'm going to say there is no advantage to Max Betting unless you are close to the Bonus Games. I did not Max Bet at any point, but the second time I was reasonably close to a Bonus Game, I upped my bet to $1.00 and there is quite clearly more results that lead you to the game that results in one of the Progressive Jackpots the more that you bet. More on that later.


In the old days (three wheel slots with each reel having say 32 stops), the only way a legit casino could change the payback was to change the chip. Today, the slot manufacturers are putting multiple paybacks on the same chip. In essence, the higher bets will result in higher payback based on the industry standard of 10,000,000 pulls.

Quote:
Progressives

You can thoeretically win any of the Progressives regardless of how much you bet. There are four Progressive Levels.


Most of the time, it will be for the smallest jackpot amount with the larger amounts used as "hooks" to tempt the player. Angst created a standard with WMS Boom! -- it was when you found the game with at least 48 firecrackers; the Angst standard was the no-lose situation. If a player found 48 fire-crackers, the worse case was to break-even. To follow the Angst standard, you would divide the lowest progressive by the number of 50-cent spins. However, the problem is as you stated, you might be awarded the "Shaking and Reeling" feature and get "Collect" on your first spin.
December 30th, 2012 at 12:36:12 AM permalink
Ardent1
Member since: Dec 19, 2012
Threads: 5
Posts: 168
Quote: Venthus
Aruze has a few slots that do that (there may be others):
http://www.aruzegaming.com/games/chinesephoenix.html
http://www.aruzegaming.com/games/giantpanda.html
http://www.aruzegaming.com/games/shenlong.html

If you look at the screenshots, there's a 'Bet for Rescue Spin' option in the bottom middle that you can turn on.

I may be off on the details, but it works something like this:
Insurance costs each spin extra credits.
If, after 200 spins, a bonus has not hit:
  • You get free cash, something like 30$.
  • You get extra wilds on the reels during the bonus.
  • You get extra spins on the bonus.
  • The bonus has a multiplier based on the bet size of the last few spins.

If the bonus DOES naturally hit:
Congrats, you just learned what 'insurance' is...


Aruze slots are multi-dimensional and you need high level math to have a closed-form solution (way beyond my limited math skills).

What Aruze did as a way of anti-wonging, was to have two things: (a) a count-down meter that guranteed you a bonus round at the end if no bonus round was hit (that is the Rescue Spin feature) offset by (b) a meter that progresses or goes down with the bet amount -- at max bet, it goes up until it reaches the Max multipler and if you bet say $0.50, then that meter goes down with each spin. You had two forms of equity, fewer remaining spins before a guaranteed bonus round and the multiplier used in the bonus round.

The slots in my neck of the woods have a 95% payback if you play max coins (it was 97% in Reno) assuming the industry standard of 10,000,000 pulls. On top of that Aruze had multiple paybacks on one chip -- "A recent Aruze innovation is a machine that reduces the hold percentage as the maximum bet increases." (see page 3, fourth paragragh in their propoganda piece http://www.aruzegaming.com/news/2010/pdf/ggb_sleeping-giant-awakens_0410.pdf )

That means if a slot wonger sees there are 231 spins left until a GUARANTEED bonus round, if he bets the minium, Aruze slots penalizes him because the payback is reduced AND the Multiplier is being reduced (the bonus round could be reduced). In one Aruze game, the slot wonger would bet the MAX bet on the last rescue spin to win two extra spins on the Bonus Round. Some slot wongers focus on the Multiplier Meter, some on the remaining spins, some on both the Meter and remaining spins, etc.
January 5th, 2013 at 10:45:41 AM permalink
Venthus
Member since: Dec 10, 2012
Threads: 11
Posts: 387
This is NOT the unit I was looking at in Harrah's Rincon; this is in Pala, also in the Temecula area:

http://sdrv.ms/ZpoRyV

The bonuses appear to be slightly different across different games too; the differences between units, at least between shenlong and panda, are material and not just cosmetic. (Photos are for the shenlong unit at Pala.)

The shenlong and phoenix's bonus at Rincon's gave you multiple selections that gave different amounts of extra wilds. The panda version gave you a fixed 10 free spins and extra single wild on reels 2-5, so it started off with 4 extra wilds and ended up with a total of 40 wilds.

Unfortunately, I did not see any of the insurance bonuses hit.
January 5th, 2013 at 4:35:23 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: May 15, 2012
Threads: 75
Posts: 5792
I'm sorry that you didn't hit on any of those bonuses, but thank you for the machine comparison, breakdown and pictures!

I'll definitely play that if I see it, though I will try to vulture on someone whiffing on Free Games, I'd probably play anyway just because it looks fun.
On Revel: "It is a silvery, soaring monument to a stream of bad decisions."-Philly.com
January 5th, 2013 at 5:13:51 PM permalink
Venthus
Member since: Dec 10, 2012
Threads: 11
Posts: 387
Oh, I blew out my bankroll on other things, so I just sat there and watched for an hour while the rest of my party cleaned up at House Money BJ.
March 1st, 2014 at 4:13:59 PM permalink
Ibeatyouraces
Member since: Jan 12, 2010
Threads: 40
Posts: 5051
I jumped on this today while the clock was at 9:00. At some point before 12:00 I got an 8x multiplier for any bonus win. I hit the bonus just before 11:00 and hit the shakin and reelin feature and won this.



The last spin on the bonus sent me to the jukebox portion of the bonus where I got the major for just over $68.00. Total bonus win of about $400.00
"Shut up Meg." Peter Griffin, Family Guy
March 1st, 2014 at 4:31:09 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: May 15, 2012
Threads: 75
Posts: 5792
Sweet!!!

It's a cute little play and has performed positively for me recently, though not quite to that extent!
On Revel: "It is a silvery, soaring monument to a stream of bad decisions."-Philly.com
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