How do you know an online casino is honest?

I'm trying to ask this question in an unloaded a manner as possible. I've no evidence, none at all, that any online casino cheats, nor am I imlpying any of them do.

The question is pretty simple. Any casino will make money because of the house advantage. Therefore any casino that runs an honest games (ie where the house plays by its own rules), doesn't need to cheat in order to make money, movies and myth to the contrary notwithstanding.

However, a little cheating could increase the HA. A bricks-and-mortar casino cannot cheat effectively because the events that determine the results of a game, like the flip of a card or the throw of the dice, are in plain view of the customers. Online, however, results are determined somehow, possibly by a random number algorhythm, with a simulation of the event being shown on-screen. If they wanted to cheat a little they could, and the customers would ahve no way of knowing.

Here's what I mean. Let's say that on every tenth turn of the wheel, the RNG result is scraped if it hits a number a player has a bet on, replacing it with an un-bet on number. That increases the HA and doesn't happen often enough to be obtrusive.

That's one reason I don't gamble online.

As far as I know, there is no way of knowing an online casino is honest. Without thousands and thousands of hands/spins as statistical evidence, your theory is perfectly valid.

However as soon as a casino is even suspected of dishonesty word gets round, and people wont go there, and without reputation and customers, there is nothing. So whilst in the short term cheating could be profitable, in the long term its not worth it.

most online casinos software is overseen by a gambling commission (which one escapes me) so should have a fair game. But like with anything, there are bad ones out there, research and protection are the best bets.

Both casinos, online, and brick and mortar types, can cheat you.

Though there is a gaming commission that exists, you don't know truly if the casino is taking face cards out of the deck to help its edge in blackjack unless you see the dealer open a new deck of cards and put it in the shoe.

Online casinos are located offshore and are not subject to the same gaming laws and regulations. They could easily change the program to win more than the expected house edge, at any game, and chalk it up to variance. That's why I won't play against an online casino. For the brick and mortar kind, I'll happily play and just trust that they aren't playing with the cards.

Visit Casino Meister among others if you want to get a feeling for how the industry works and polices itself. Mr. Wizard has a link to this site on his website and it's there for a good reason. It was the case in the early 2000's that a lot of nonsense took place, but now -- if there's an issue it is usually discovered pretty quickly. See the thread there on Jackpot Heaven.

--Dorothy

Who says land casinos don't cheat?? Change the blackjack payout to 6:5. Have a $3 craps game where the $3 place 6 only pays even money. Offer less than 9/6 JOB. Reinvent roulette and add 00 and call it "American Roulette" Like everything else in life; "Buyer Beware!"

Quote: DeMango

Who says land casinos don't cheat?? Change the blackjack payout to 6:5. Have a $3 craps game where the $3 place 6 only pays even money. Offer less than 9/6 JOB. Reinvent roulette and add 00 and call it "American Roulette" Like everything else in life; "Buyer Beware!"

None of what you mentioned for B&M is cheating. In every case the intelligent buyer can make a choice. The thought that 6/5 or 00-Roulette is cheating is absurd. Cheating means that the cards are not coming out with equal probability, or that the dealer is dealing seconds. It means that the slots have hacked computer chips. It means that the methamphetamine addicted Three Card Poker dealer is flashing his hole cards to his friend at third base. Cheating is a felony in B&M casinos, you'll get your 5-10 years.

Cheating in B&M is far more common than in online casinos. No doubt about it.

--Dorothy

Quote: DorothyGale

Cheating in B&M is far more common than in online casinos. No doubt about it.

Do you mean on a widespread basis by the casino, or collusion between employees and customers, or by customers?

Looking on the thread, I realized I probably couldn't tell if a casino were cheating at cards. Say they pull some tens out of a BJ shoe, I couldn't tell. But I remain cnofident cheating at roulette or craps, by the casino, is just not possible. Not as far as fixing the results.

In NJ, the CCC is on the floor and casinos are not allowed to operate without them. (When the govt shut down in 06, the casinos were closed.) It's my understanding they can and do audit games randomly and check things like the cards. I really don't see how or why the casinos would pull tens from their blackjack games. The bonus for them would be so severely outweighed by the penalty of being immediately blacklisted in the media and public as a cheat. Plus, people are usually sitting at games when they open; the cards are on the table, unshuffled until the first player steps up. They can see all the cards are there. So you are saying they take the tens during the course of a game? I just don't buy it. Life is about risk/reward. The reward is nowhere even close to the risk.

Quote: cclub79

In NJ, the CCC is on the floor and casinos are not allowed to operate without them. (When the govt shut down in 06, the casinos were closed.)

I don't find that reassuring at all. Any government inspector can be bribed or otherwise bought off.

The reason I'm sure most casinos don't cheat is they don't need to. If they play the games by their own rules, they win in the long run. As a second reason, it's very hard to cheat in most games without a large number of customers realizing it. IN B&M casinos, that is. Online they could do whatever they wanted, as long as they were subtle about it, and their customers probably wouldn't notice.

Casinos do well because people are greedy. Certainly, B&M casinos do not need to cheat on the slot machines and most casinos show the net win to be about 5-10% of the total amount gambled and is by far the greatest source of revenue. Table Game hold is about 20% meaning that they keep 20% (please correct me if i am wrong) what they take in. Even though the house advantage is 0.5 - 5%, you bet through your bankroll many many times.