Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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Thanks for this post from:
IndyJeffrey
December 21st, 2016 at 7:54:51 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

...I have even heard Donald Trump say Chinaman (I think even "wealthy Chinaman"), many public figures use it. I don't know the context, but I doubt that they had bad intentions.

I would NOT use what trump says as a base line for politically correct... Otherwise we should all start grabbing 'em by the p****.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
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December 21st, 2016 at 9:25:18 AM permalink
NSFW, profanity, LEBOWSKI, only place I ever remembered hearing Chinaman.
Looks like sh!t just got imaginary!
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 21st, 2016 at 9:29:19 AM permalink
If Bob were referring to a wealthy man from China, calling him Chinese-American would be both wrong and stupid.
I'm not an Irish-American. I'm an American of Irish descent, even though I was born in neither.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
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December 21st, 2016 at 9:34:54 AM permalink
Quote: terapined

I just don't get what is offensive with the term Oriental
It doesn't bother me or my mother who is full blooded Chinese.
I am a fan of history
I remember the orient express. I or my mother was never offended by the name on the train.

What does bothers me is a private message from EB today on this site full of hate for me on this subject
I was really taken aback by the PM
wow
If I get suspended for revealing this, so be it



I think the reason is the term really only describes people as a group with one less eyelid fold. Asian can mean anyone from Asia, including Indians, but Oriental only includes yellow skinned, foldless eyed people. Basically you're making reference to a group by common ethnic appearances. It's more polite doing the same thing, but using geography. Oriental is linked to the old days, when only whites had rights. Think that is another aspect.
Looks like sh!t just got imaginary!
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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Thanks for this post from:
TropicalElectriZuga
December 21st, 2016 at 9:56:04 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

If Bob were referring to a wealthy man from China, calling him Chinese-American would be both wrong and stupid.
I'm not an Irish-American. I'm an American of Irish descent, even though I was born in neither.



I am actually biracial - Irish/Chinese
A friend once joked that I like beer with my rice :-)
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 21st, 2016 at 11:12:06 AM permalink
Quote: terapined

I am actually biracial - Irish/Chinese
A friend once joked that I like beer with my rice :-)



There are only two types of people.
Those who are Irish, and those who wish they were.
Ni leor teanga amhain.
Cead mile failte
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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onenickelmiracle
December 21st, 2016 at 11:22:08 AM permalink
I think when the name isn't chosen by the selected group, it can become offensive just for that reason alone. Especially, if they already have a selected designation.

Then if you're kicked in the head while being called something, you're likely to get a bad association with the term, no matter what it is.
Being a human cannonball is more than a job. It's a career.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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December 21st, 2016 at 11:48:21 AM permalink
Quote: Wiggins

Maybe "Chinaman" isn't as offensive as some other pejorative terms, but I've never heard it used by anyone I have an ounce of respect for. I found a great thread on another forum. I can't post links due to my low post count but if you google "chinaman offensive" it's the second result. Here is one of the best posts:

1) If the person is not ethnically Chinese, you've not only demonstrated you can't tell the difference between Asians, but you're also saying there's no significant difference. That not only do all Asians look alike, they are culturally the same.

2) If the person is ethnically Chinese but identifies as American, you've told them that their ethnicity will always separate them from Americans no matter how long ago their ancestors came here or how immersed they are in American culture.

3) "Chinaman" implies a person from China, not just of Chinese ancestry, which implies that to you, no matter how Americanized they are or what their citizenship is or anything, they will always be an outsider who doesn't belong in America.



Those are all cases of inventing a narrative, or putting thoughts into another person's mind, so that you get to feel offended. Ultra P.C. people are like bad girlfriends that way.

There are very obvious counter examples, about how we describe Italian Americans, or how a Canadian would be thought of in China. Jeez, I recently talked with a black woman who went to China and was telling me how people kept asking to take a picture with her just because they'd never seen a black person before. She thought it was a little annoying, but wasn't offended.

Some people just stop changing the way the speak as they get older. Other people think it's colorful to use outdated terms, like chinaman, that don't really have any venom in them.

You can certainly argue that it is inconsiderate. I'll generally call people whatever they seem to like being called, though that gets tricky too. Like you say "native American," then they say "Indian." Do you now switch?

Anyway, you can't just assert that someone is sending such and such message, or expressing such and such belief, because it makes you feel self righteous to do so. Either someone is being hateful, or they are not. The reasons they use the term are the real reasons they use the term. The reasons you make up and assign to them are the fabrications of an addled mind.

"It's most definitely not a term whose degree of offensiveness is dictated by usage or context. I cannot think of any situation in which an Asian-American being called a Chinaman would be inoffensive."

I can think of a very obvious one. You know each other and they don't find it offensive. I used to have mostly Asian co-workers and it went way, way beyond that.
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
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December 21st, 2016 at 11:54:13 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

I think the reason is the term really only describes people as a group with one less eyelid fold. Asian can mean anyone from Asia, including Indians, but Oriental only includes yellow skinned, foldless eyed people. Basically you're making reference to a group by common ethnic appearances. It's more polite doing the same thing, but using geography. Oriental is linked to the old days, when only whites had rights. Think that is another aspect.

Does that classification include Koreans, Vietnamese, Thais and even Japanese?
JimRockford
JimRockford
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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December 21st, 2016 at 12:19:48 PM permalink
It just sounds ignorant. You might say Irishman but you don't say Irelandman. A man from China is a Chinese man.
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." - Isaac Newton

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