terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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December 21st, 2016 at 4:57:31 AM permalink
Quote: VCUSkyhawk

Ok I am confused. Why is Chinaman offensive if the person you are describing IS from China? .



I don't get it either and I was born in the Republic of China (not the Peoples Republic of China)
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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December 21st, 2016 at 5:11:06 AM permalink
Could be worse, this classic Cheesesteak shop in Philly had to change its name and lost business.

http://www.philly.com/philly/food/Chinks-Steaks-changing-its-name.html
Last edited by: Boz on Dec 21, 2016
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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December 21st, 2016 at 5:21:31 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

Could be worse, this classic Cheessteak shop in Philly had to change its name and lost business.

http://www.philly.com/philly/food/Chinks-Steaks-changing-its-name.html



If you are not eating at Pats Steaks, you not having a genuine Philly Steak and cheese
I remember when NBA star John Havelich retired, last 2 months of his final season was treated as a farewell tour.
In Philly, he was presented at center court before the game with a take out order from Pats Steaks :-)
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
Joeman
Joeman
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
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December 21st, 2016 at 6:08:44 AM permalink
Quote: terapined

I just don't get what is offensive with the term Oriental
It doesn't bother me or my mother who is full blooded Chinese.
I am a fan of history
I remember the orient express. I or my mother was never offended by the name on the train.

Although, I find it interesting that the "Orient Express" went only as far east as Constantinople.

I once heard that the term "Oriental" is only appropriate when describing rugs, and that "Asian" was the preferred term. I guess each individual has his opinion on the subject. I have no problem using a term that a listener would prefer, even if it is different than what I am used to, but I can't always know what they would prefer! I also applaud people who do not take offense when none is intended.

Quote:

What does bothers me is a private message from EB today on this site full of hate for me on this subject
I was really taken aback by the PM
wow

Well, that sucks! I hope you can let it go. I know you post a lot in the political threads here. I can't say that I agree with some of your positions, but you put forth thoughtful arguments. I don't ever recall you being disrespectful to anyone.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
gamerfreak
gamerfreak 
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December 21st, 2016 at 6:35:32 AM permalink
Quote: terapined

If you are not eating at Pats Steaks, you not having a genuine Philly Steak and cheese
I remember when NBA star John Havelich retired, last 2 months of his final season was treated as a farewell tour.
In Philly, he was presented at center court before the game with a take out order from Pats Steaks :-)


Are you from Philly? You must not be from Philly. Pat's and Gino's are garbage. Chinks is great though.

I'll even go a step further and not even recxomend a cheesesteak if you are in the city. There is a much better sandwich. Dinic's pork with provolone and long hots. John's roast pork is a good runner up.

Back on topic....growing up in a pretty diverse area, I found that 99% of people do not take offense to racial slurs in/of themselves. It all depends on the context. If you are legitimately being hateful towards someone, of course they are going to get upset.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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December 21st, 2016 at 6:36:51 AM permalink
Asian is a word that means vastly different things in different countries. In the UK it usually means Pakistani.

Oriental and Occidental are problematical unless there is a reference point. You can get there from either direction you know.

For some people you just don't have a Chinaman's Chance of changing their minds. Negroes, ooops blacks, object to Stepin' Fetchett caricatures, Chinese never seemed to complain about 'Heyboy' in 'Have Gun, Will Travel'. San Francisco had Chinese owned opium dens and Mahjong Parlors, but even the wealthy owners who could speak English perfectly would customarily revert to a No Tickee, No Shirtee when traveling.

As to Republic of China and Peoples Republic of China ... their is meeting abuot that scheduled to take place in Donald Trump's New Amsterdam.
Wiggins
Wiggins
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December 21st, 2016 at 7:04:35 AM permalink
Maybe "Chinaman" isn't as offensive as some other pejorative terms, but I've never heard it used by anyone I have an ounce of respect for. I found a great thread on another forum. I can't post links due to my low post count but if you google "chinaman offensive" it's the second result. Here is one of the best posts:

Quote:

"Chinaman", when directed at an Asian-American, is insulting because:

1) If the person is not ethnically Chinese, you've not only demonstrated you can't tell the difference between Asians, but you're also saying there's no significant difference. That not only do all Asians look alike, they are culturally the same.

2) If the person is ethnically Chinese but identifies as American, you've told them that their ethnicity will always separate them from Americans no matter how long ago their ancestors came here or how immersed they are in American culture.

3) "Chinaman" implies a person from China, not just of Chinese ancestry, which implies that to you, no matter how Americanized they are or what their citizenship is or anything, they will always be an outsider who doesn't belong in America.

It's most definitely not a term whose degree of offensiveness is dictated by usage or context. I cannot think of any situation in which an Asian-American being called a Chinaman would be inoffensive. It's true that anyone using the term "Chinaman" reveals a lot more about himself than it insults the speaker, but that doesn't take away from the negative connotations of the term.

terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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December 21st, 2016 at 7:18:25 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Are you from Philly? You must not be from Philly. Pat's and Gino's are garbage. Chinks is great though.

I'll even go a step further and not even recxomend a cheesesteak if you are in the city. There is a much better sandwich. Dinic's pork with provolone and long hots. John's roast pork is a good runner up.

Back on topic....growing up in a pretty diverse area, I found that 99% of people do not take offense to racial slurs in/of themselves. It all depends on the context. If you are legitimately being hateful towards someone, of course they are going to get upset.



From Maryland living in Florida but I did go to Drexel U right in the city.
It was interesting time living in Philly
The Black radical group "Move" had a fortified house a block from my dorm in Powelton Village section of Philly
I thought the Pats Cheese steak I had with onions and provolone was excellent

I totally agree with "It all depends on the context" regarding the use of "Chinaman" and other racial descriptions
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
MrV
MrV
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Thanks for this post from:
Boz
December 21st, 2016 at 7:43:13 AM permalink
For the "real" Philadelphia experience, you have to get up early New Year's Day morning, get to center city, and catch some of that little-known but oh, so bizarre Philadelphia tradition, The Mummers Parade.

Oh, those string bands!
"What, me worry?"
Gandler
Gandler
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December 21st, 2016 at 7:46:14 AM permalink
I didn't hear that episode, so I don't know the context. But, I see nothing inherently wrong with it. I know Chinese-American is the correct term, but that is not right if the man is from China.

If he was talking about a wealthy male visitor from China, how else would he say the term? Are you supposed to say "male Chinese National". Chinaman is easier, just like Irishman, Brit, neither of those are politically correct, but it keeps things easier for quick statements.

I have even heard Donald Trump say Chinaman (I think even "wealthy Chinaman"), many public figures use it. I don't know the context, but I doubt that they had bad intentions.
"Whatever is my right as a man is also the right of another; and it becomes my duty to guarantee as well as to possess. -Thomas Paine

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