Gambler accused of dice sliding at Wynn Las Vegas - Sued for return of $700,000

Quote: Paigowdan

1. You don't play to win, you play to play under the best conditions and by the ground rules. You may win or you may lose, and if you break the rules to win, you really didn't win, and don't want it.
2. People who play to win instead of play-to-play don't go NEAR a casino - unless it's the poker room or a job in the casino, or for recreation.

Why then not enjoy free practice money games at any of the online casinos?

Or, if it has to have physical dice, table minimums at Royale - while at that, why does anyone ever bet more than the table minimum?

A Member has seen the dice sliding videos and reported that they were "pushes" of two stacked die just as if a stack of chips was being moved: thumb and finger around bottom die, index finger atop the topmost die. The bottom die rarely made it anywhere near the wall much less bouncing it off the wall. The bottom die often didn't pass the "C" in Come and a few times only made it to the "E" in Come. Presumably the top die made it further but did not actually tumble and surely did not bounce off the wall.

So.
Was the crew in it?
Was the crew just timid and inexperienced?
Have the recent layoffs and rehirings and schedule changes so depleted the pool of capable crews that this sort of thing can happen.
It doesn't look like the woman being sued is the type to leave things to chance. Did a long term employee take a bribe? Wouldn't it mean the who crew had to be dirty?

Pushing the stacked die from just past TheStick to about half way to the far wall is a slide, not a toss, roll or bounce or anything and it would normally be a "No Roll" not a several hundred thousand dollar win.

My vote: Fraud.
My vote: Inside Job.

Quote: FleaStiff

...My vote: Fraud.
My vote: Inside Job.

Has got to be.

Quote: FleaStiff

Was the crew in it?

Not just the crew. But now that it's clear that the cheating was taped, the eye-in-the-sky security folks as well as the floor supervisors had to have been aware of what was transpiring. If they weren't, they shouldn't be working in a live casino because of their ineptitude or general malfeasance.

Floor Persons can have their view blocked, be busy elsewhere either innocently or by arrangement, etc. Surveillance people are not expected to be reacting to each roll or even to reveal they are watching that table at that time. Remember, 700,000 dollars for a place like the Wynn is sort of the "slow lane" as far as what might be happening at other tables at the time.

I just blame the immediate crew or else the Wynn crew had to all be newbies which at another casino might indeed be a possibility but at the Wynn, I would doubt it.

Quote: FleaStiff

700,000 dollars for a place like the Wynn is sort of the "slow lane" as far as what might be happening at other tables at the time.

"At the time" ran for a month, according to the original article. And the couple were hardly anonymous. They were highly rated and they were cashing in big time at the cage, and even a ritzy-titzy joint like Wynn takes extra notice of that kind of action.

Quote: SanchoPanza

and even a ritzy-titzy joint like Wynn takes extra notice of that kind of action.

and even a ritzy-titzy joit like Wynn SHOULD take extra notice of that kind of action but it seems somebody was asleep at the switch and watching her breasts rather than her hands.

Quote: P90

Quote: Paigowdan

1. You don't play to win, you play to play under the best conditions and by the ground rules. You may win or you may lose, and if you break the rules to win, you really didn't win, and don't want it.
2. People who play to win instead of play-to-play don't go NEAR a casino - unless it's the poker room or a job in the casino, or for recreation.

Why then not enjoy free practice money games at any of the online casinos?

Or, if it has to have physical dice, table minimums at Royale - while at that, why does anyone ever bet more than the table minimum?

Exactly my point. If I want to PLAY TO PLAY, I sure as hell would not be STUPID enough to bet real money. This whole picture that gambling is entertainment is nothing but a big fraud.

Of course it was an inside job, thats why nobody
who was at that table works there anymore. The
guy who was in surveillance is probably gone too.
Collusion is a casinos biggest nightmare, it what
they watch for and fear above everything else.

Quote: FleaStiff

A Member has seen the dice sliding videos and reported that they were "pushes" of two stacked die just as if a stack of chips was being moved: thumb and finger around bottom die, index finger atop the topmost die. The bottom die rarely made it anywhere near the wall much less bouncing it off the wall. The bottom die often didn't pass the "C" in Come and a few times only made it to the "E" in Come. Presumably the top die made it further but did not actually tumble and surely did not bounce off the wall.

So.
Was the crew in it?
Was the crew just timid and inexperienced?
Have the recent layoffs and rehirings and schedule changes so depleted the pool of capable crews that this sort of thing can happen.
It doesn't look like the woman being sued is the type to leave things to chance. Did a long term employee take a bribe? Wouldn't it mean the who crew had to be dirty?

Pushing the stacked die from just past TheStick to about half way to the far wall is a slide, not a toss, roll or bounce or anything and it would normally be a "No Roll" not a several hundred thousand dollar win.

My vote: Fraud.
My vote: Inside Job.

That was me. It was insane. There is not a person in the world who has any idea of Craps (and probably a good number of people who are ignorant of Craps) that could look at those rolls and not laugh. If I remember the story correctly, the crew was instructed "not to bother the patrons", and I don't mean as in "I know these guys, let them cheat" but "these are high rollers, don't piss them off". But regardless, I can't understand how no one challenged the absurdity of these rolls. They were sooo terrible and went on for sooo long... I wonder if that will/did affect any sort of ruling (I haven't heard what has come of it)

The top die did tumble and hit the back wall, but it's supposed to. The top die doesn't really matter. Depending on how you set and kill the bottom die, you can create betting sets for points, field, hops, or whatever, just by "killing" the bottom die as a 1 or 6.