Doc
Doc
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Thanks for this post from:
Paigowdan
April 9th, 2017 at 8:06:59 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

Hit the wall and stop taking so f'n long to "set" the dice thinking you can actually control the outcome.

Craps is my preferred game and I set the dice for every throw. I have no delusions about it affecting the outcome of the throw; it's just a fun thing to do before throwing the dice. It takes no more than 2 seconds (maybe 3 if I am fumble fingered) to get the exact orientation that I want, so I don't think it really slows down the game. The much bigger slowdown is that after picking up the dice, I prefer to wait until all the jokers at the other end of the table have stopped moving their chips around, tossing additional late bets in the general direction of the dealers, generally acting like jerks and finally get their hands out of the way of the dice. Then, I throw the dice and very rarely miss the end wall (usually because of hitting an obstruction on a chip-crowded table) and extremely rarely having them go off the table.

Yes, I have seen shooters who start their hand by throwing all five dice several times against the wall in front of them trying to select the perfect pair, then on each subsequent roll toss the dice a couple of times more in front of themselves looking for some magical sign, and then finally go through some bizarre exercise routine pushing and pulling on the table rail until they are finally fully-prepared for the throw. These are either knuckleheads who normally play in some dark alley or the idiots that paid money to some dice system instructor and actually believe that the routine will lead to a brilliant career at the craps table.

I agree with Dan's recommendation with regard to the general play of the game. I think (not certain) that TomG's comments were in regard to how to deal with an anal-retentive dealer who wants to come down hard on a shooter the very first time that the dice bounce sideways and don't reach the end of the table. That is, I think Tom might have been suggesting that if the paid employee wants to act like a jerk, then his employer's guest might go ahead and return the gesture.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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Thanks for this post from:
Dyvan13
April 9th, 2017 at 9:51:35 AM permalink
I'm a crap dealer, and I just came back from my shift. (And yes, I did go back, and it keeps me busy.)

Basically, players are expected to make a good faith effort to throw the dice decently, and for the most part, they do so indeed.
And floor personnel are also supposed to be fair, friendly, and reasonably forgiving over minor dice mishaps when players are trying in good faith.

Problems occur when either players or floormen get standoffish or territorial about things, the whole 'look at me, I'm the big man in charge here at the crap table" type of thing - the human condition being what it is. While we try to get a team spirit going, many players try to assert some "Alpha dominance/man-in-charge/I'm Gumby, dammit!" ego-boosting routines at the crap table by pushing the limit a bit. Lobbing five dice down when it is not necessary and very disruptive at the table is a case in point; some places will pass the dice to the next shooter with no warning.

Tonight, one guy threw the dice off the table frequently; the pit crew thought they were doing cardio, chasing the the dice back into the pit so often. But this player was given a lot of leeway because he was trying, and our table is a bit bouncy. Fine.

Crap dealers can also get "crap dealer Ego" on other dealers. I dealt with one dealer who also deals part time at the Aria.
One player threw the dice pretty hard, and one die started to spin on its axis for quite a while, like a child's top toy. I said, "Wait for the call, the dice are spinning," and then I gave the call about twenty seconds later ("Mark the 9, point is 9") when they landed.

But this other dealer, in the middle of the game with the one player present said, "Excuse me, little Danny, but what you said wasn't a p-r-r-r-oper stick call, so let me instruct you, little boy..." where I said, "you aren't instructing me squat, as I gave it as a game notification only. Don't tell me what's a proper stick call when you're not on stick, as I'll say things like "Good morning" to a new player, or "there's a space on the 2nd base side," and other things that are not stick calls as part of my job. YOU have a name tag and a table, and are no better than anyone else here. Let's get back to the game here."

I discussed this with the shift manager, and he is aware of prima dona dealers trying to peck themselves up by dressing down other dealers under b.s. pretenses like "instructing" - while supposedly on a team game, just as floormen and players do also. For me, it is bad enough when players take shots at dealers, but inexcusable for dealers to take shots at fellow dealers while on a live game, and for a floormen to be abusive, even if a player is a shot taker - all for the sake of their own ego boosting in a group environment. Basta! ("Enough!")

The simple fact of the matter is that on a multi-player, multi dealer game like craps with a lot of shoulder-to-shoulder action, you're going to see a good bit of Alpha Dog maneuvers and one-upmanship in group behavior, - a lot of shenanigans, basically - from the players, dealers, and even floor personnel drilling on a player. There may be team captains like Derek Jeter on the New York Yankees, but not on a crap game aside from the boxman. Any action in good faith that is related to trying to play the game right is generally tolerated, but you'll see some jerks.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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April 9th, 2017 at 10:06:05 AM permalink
Many crap dealers think and act superior because they believe that craps is the hardest game to deal.
What we've got here is failure to communicate
troopscott
troopscott
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April 9th, 2017 at 10:50:38 AM permalink
Fire a fastball
Dyvan13
Dyvan13
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April 9th, 2017 at 11:51:12 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

It isn't often I agree with Dan and I'm no defender of casinos, but the rules are the rules. Hit the wall and stop taking so f'n long to "set" the dice thinking you can actually control the outcome. There are others playing at the table that want the game to continue while you are wasting everyone's time with your nonsense.




Did you read the OP? The table was completely empty. And for anybody who has practiced even a little bit, setting the dice should only take 2-3 seconds.

On DI: I know it's not changing the probability of anything. For myself and many players, its a big part of the fun and the Craps experience. We could just fling the dice hastily, but there is something about the finesse of the setting procedure and toss that makes it much more fun.

One thing I have always been amused with are the people that set the dice, then throw a MLB fastball down the table.
Boz
Boz
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April 9th, 2017 at 12:09:55 PM permalink
Quote: Dyvan13

Did you read the OP? The table was completely empty. And for anybody who has practiced even a little bit, setting the dice should only take 2-3 seconds.

On DI: I know it's not changing the probability of anything. For myself and many players, its a big part of the fun and the Craps experience. We could just fling the dice hastily, but there is something about the finesse of the setting procedure and toss that makes it much more fun.

One thing I have always been amused with are the people that set the dice, then throw a MLB fastball down the table.



Yes I read the post but the same story happens to some degree 24/7 at craps tables. Basic expectation is the player hits the wall. Dealers can tell when someone is being cute or just didn't hit the wall. Big difference. No excuse for them being a dick to most players but some deserve it. Not saying you did but some push their patience with nonsense over and over.

As for the setting, I don't care what someone does as long as they do it quickly. The jokers that take 10 seconds to throw them slow down the game. But I can also leave the table if I don't like how others are playing. To each his own game.
ECoaster
ECoaster
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April 9th, 2017 at 3:40:45 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

The much bigger slowdown is that after picking up the dice, I prefer to wait until all the jokers at the other end of the table have stopped moving their chips around, tossing additional late bets in the general direction of the dealers, generally acting like jerks and finally get their hands out of the way of the dice.



When I first learned to play this was my instinct... but the crew at the time made it quite clear- when we give you the dice, go ahead and throw them.
Doc
Doc
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April 9th, 2017 at 6:18:55 PM permalink
But if you do throw then, hit the hand/arm of the joker that is interfering, and the dice wind up showing that nasty number, then everyone at the table is mad at both the joker and the shooter. Of course it's random, but try convincing a group of POed players who just lost their money and saw exactly what happened!

I have a vague and probably false memory of a time a guy kept blocking the table and ignoring the fact the dice were out. According to this "memory", I didn't make my usual throw. Instead, I threw one die as a fastball that bounced sharply off his arm and (by "accident") still held the other die securely in my hand for a no-roll call. The point was to make a point.

Of course, that was probably just in one of my fantasies and never happened in real life. I'm not sure. I wonder how PGDan would have felt if that had happened at his table.
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
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April 10th, 2017 at 1:05:26 AM permalink
Some of my favorite responses to those dice setters:

Please throw them before you pick them up.

and

I believe those dice come pre-set from the factory.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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April 10th, 2017 at 3:05:10 AM permalink
Quote: Dyvan13

Yep. Only double odds. I should have known just from that that they are a sweat the money joint.

Yeah, its a sure tip off. A cruise ship often does that because you ain't got nowhere else to go, but SouthPoint just does it to be cheap and ever vigilant. If a player gets real lucky they don't want it to cost them, even if his play is totally legitimate. Its a nice place for several reasons, but its a place that likes ploppies and red-button pushers who don't even read the paytables.

ATTN. Paigowdan: Good advice about a proper throw, but why not spell out for us just what a proper throw is. A high arcing lob is frowned upon in some places. I do NOT ever try any funny throws but I once got a high arc and the dice settled exactly at the base of the wall without bouncing. I'd have called it a no roll but they were quick to take my bet away. I still think that Box had it in for me for some reason.

Craps is the most demanding game to deal. Math ALL the time. A BJ dealer can 'zone out' from time to time but a craps dealer can't. A stick man can 'run over' a base dealer but usually should pace the game in such a manner that each end of the table gets properly serviced.

I feel embarrassed if I get a 'Too Tall To Call' or other die overboard result even though I know I sure didn't try to throw it into the slot machine area.

I'm often hesitant to pick up an errant die for fear of anyone thinking I'm about to switch them and that I'm in collusion with the current shooter.

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