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mds
mds
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October 27th, 2016 at 10:29:22 AM permalink
Thanks to a friend who is there right this minute I have some news. Last night Wynn went to 30 to 1 on the ALL TALL and SMALL. 150 to 1 on the ALL... I don't play this bet anyway but ridiculous. Let people have at least a better payout on a losing proposition. When will the madness stop?
Wonder what does the HE go to now on these wagers? See below.
What do you think about this latest move? Surprised?

TALL AND SMALL
EV= 0.026354 x 30 - 0.973646 x 1 = -0.1830 = 18.30% HE

ALL
EV = 0.005258 x 150 - 0.994742 x 1 = -0.2060 = 20.60% HE
Last edited by: mds on Oct 27, 2016
TheoHuxtable
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October 27th, 2016 at 11:09:16 AM permalink
Takes the house advantage up to 18% and 20%, yes? Still a little less than fire bet. Did Wynn have craps side bets before BC install?
Views are my own...
Joeshlabotnik
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October 27th, 2016 at 11:22:41 AM permalink
You can't Wynn.
Ibeatyouraces
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October 27th, 2016 at 11:31:51 AM permalink
You shouldn't be paying the damn bet even if it had the original pay table! I don't understand the gripe.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
RonC
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October 27th, 2016 at 11:33:57 AM permalink
It is a brilliant move, along with the move some casinos have made to $5 minimums on these bets.

Brilliant? No, I did not say good for gamblers; it is just a good way to change the edge a good bit and sneak it by without too many really noticing. The bet still pays "well"--30 to 1 is good for a side bet when people don't bother to know the house advantages; 150 to 1 is really good. People will bitch a little bit, but they'll still play for the big payoff.

Of course, it sucks. That goes without saying.

Thou shall not bet the center bets.
TomG
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October 27th, 2016 at 7:54:03 PM permalink
Is that on all the tables or just the low minimum ones?
RS
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October 27th, 2016 at 8:00:10 PM permalink
Quote: RonC

It is a brilliant move, along with the move some casinos have made to $5 minimums on these bets.

Brilliant? No, I did not say good for gamblers; it is just a good way to change the edge a good bit and sneak it by without too many really noticing. The bet still pays "well"--30 to 1 is good for a side bet when people don't bother to know the house advantages; 150 to 1 is really good. People will bitch a little bit, but they'll still play for the big payoff.

Of course, it sucks. That goes without saying.

Thou shall not bet the center bets.



Perhaps. Although part me wants to believe enough people wouldn't like the change enough so they just quit making the bet. But.....I don't know if that'd be enough to make this change a bad thing for the casino or a good thing.

True, you shouldn't be betting it to begin with. But, "Why the gripe?" -- IMO -- moreso because this continues the negative path the casinos are on to make games worse. The ATS might no effect you or anyone else here, but the more casinos do this type of thing, the more they're going to do it to games you play....
MrV
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October 27th, 2016 at 8:08:19 PM permalink
A fellow I was talking to today said Wynn charged him quite a bit for parking, and he was a guest.

So, Wynn, MGM: any others jumping on the Pay for Parking bandwagon?
"What, me worry?"
Ibeatyouraces
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October 27th, 2016 at 8:08:53 PM permalink
Quote: RS

..True, you shouldn't be betting it to begin with. But, "Why the gripe?" -- IMO -- moreso because this continues the negative path the casinos are on to make games worse. The ATS might no effect you or anyone else here, but the more casinos do this type of thing, the more they're going to do it to games you play....

.
Griping won't work. Want proof? 6/5 blackjack is spreading worse than dandelions.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
RS
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October 27th, 2016 at 8:12:03 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

.
Griping won't work. Want proof? 6/5 blackjack is spreading worse than dandelions.



Not saying it will work. But there's a reason to gripe, or at least -- a reason not to praise the casino.
tringlomane
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October 27th, 2016 at 11:51:30 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

A fellow I was talking to today said Wynn charged him quite a bit for parking, and he was a guest.

So, Wynn, MGM: any others jumping on the Pay for Parking bandwagon?



Considering the 6 month gripefest I read about MGM charging for parking (BEFORE they actually began to charge!), if it was Wynn, I should have definitely heard about it already. It was free early in September.

Quote: RonC

It is a brilliant move, along with the move some casinos have made to $5 minimums on these bets.

Brilliant? No, I did not say good for gamblers; it is just a good way to change the edge a good bit and sneak it by without too many really noticing. The bet still pays "well"--30 to 1 is good for a side bet when people don't bother to know the house advantages; 150 to 1 is really good. People will bitch a little bit, but they'll still play for the big payoff.

Of course, it sucks. That goes without saying.

Thou shall not bet the center bets.



After crunching out the same house edge numbers for another forum I post at, I wrote this:

"This is a much smarter move than the 2X odds, imo.

Now the house edges are in line with the fire bet and people still blindly bet that one. I always thought the paybacks on the small/tall/all were quite competitive given the high odds wagers. The house usually gouges those bets in the double digits for house edge at least."
FDEAD3709
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October 28th, 2016 at 8:21:36 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

.
Griping won't work. Want proof? 6/5 blackjack is spreading worse than dandelions.



Gee, I guess the boycott didn't work ? Maybe the experts don't have that many loyal followers after all!
Ibeatyouraces
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October 28th, 2016 at 8:30:19 AM permalink
Quote: FDEAD3709

Gee, I guess the boycott didn't work ? Maybe the experts don't have that many loyal followers after all!


I guess not BUZZ...
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
SOOPOO
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October 28th, 2016 at 9:02:08 AM permalink
I am at the Wynn right now utilizing their totally free self parking.
mds
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October 28th, 2016 at 9:17:56 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane


"This is a much smarter move than the 2X odds, imo.

Now the house edges are in line with the fire bet and people still blindly bet that one. I always thought the paybacks on the small/tall/all were quite competitive given the high odds wagers. The house usually gouges those bets in the double digits for house edge at least."




Yes they were competitive and that's the way it should be. Give us a fighting chance for crying out loud. The numbers should be 100/1 on the tall and small and 500/1 for the ALL but we will take the 35/1 and 175/1.. It is pushing the Savvy gambler away. Maybe that's what SW wants. Those savvy gamblers are the same ones who travel to Vegas 10- 30 times a year losing a bunch of cash. It's getting to be a moral issue! Yes the tables will be full at 2x and these new ATS odds. I won't be there anymore (craps) because I alrady have no chance of winning now it's just adding salt to the wound. 6/5 bj, none of us will play it so why play craps at Wynn? Really same thing morally.
black2
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October 31st, 2016 at 4:54:01 PM permalink
I was at the Mirage yesterday and they have changed their payouts as well to 30/150/30. Same as the WYNN.
Wizard
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October 31st, 2016 at 5:16:00 PM permalink
Quote: black2

I was at the Mirage yesterday and they have changed their payouts as well to 30/150/30. Same as the WYNN.



Can anybody confirm these pays are on a "to one" basis? With the old pays they were listed on a "for one" basis.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
FleaStiff
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October 31st, 2016 at 6:50:00 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Can anybody confirm these pays are on a "to one" basis? With the old pays they were listed on a "for one" basis.


Okay... so in one of those they keep the bet and in the other they repay the amount bet and add the payoff to it.

Ain't that something akin to splitting hairs at about the fourth decimal point?

You goin' to call someone a Sucker or a Sucker and .000004 percent additional Sucker??

You get a whoppin' payoff if it hits, you get your adrenaline rush, that babe next to you is sure to plant a big one on you... whoever she is and whoever she is with. You WIN. Some dude just won a really ridiculous long shot bet, the whole table went wild for him, that babe gave him TWO kisses and her room key, he is ecstatic. And you want to go up to him and start talking about the difference between "to one" and "for one". Get Real. Wait until he sobers up, finds the babe is a Tranny, realizes he lost all his winnings at that 1.414 percent line bet and has to check out carrying his own suitcases.
DJTeddyBear
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October 31st, 2016 at 6:57:10 PM permalink
C'mon Flea, give the Wiz a break.

You know he's asking so he can correctly update his page on WoO about this bet...
https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/5/#toc-Small2CTall2CAndAll
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
FleaStiff
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October 31st, 2016 at 9:08:48 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

C'mon Flea, give the Wiz a break.

Aw,, heck... I ain't pickin' on him. I'm just trying to approach this maths thing in a manner that makes sense to me and is entertaining. I don't really wish any amorous trannies on craps players or anything like that. Its just that for someone who is still unable to do proper addition and subtraction, this four decimal point "edge" is difficult to grasp.

>You know he's asking so he can correctly update his page on WoO about this bet...
>https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/5/#toc-Small2CTall2CAndAll

I'll be sure to visit that site once I master enough math to count my hand at Blackjack.
tringlomane
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October 31st, 2016 at 11:02:18 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Can anybody confirm these pays are on a "to one" basis? With the old pays they were listed on a "for one" basis.



From another forum, this was the pic of the Wynn layout.



Mirage has already followed suit is troubling.
Ibeatyouraces
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October 31st, 2016 at 11:28:34 PM permalink
Vegas might as well just start a huge bon fire to throw your money into.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
FleaStiff
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November 1st, 2016 at 1:51:39 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Vegas might as well just start a huge bon fire to throw your money into.


Precisely. A bonfire. An item not particularly related to gambling. Which is what is meant by 'Vegas, Baby'. Exuberance, moral decay, restaurants, clubs, drugs, drunks, Ferris wheels, Honky and Tonky. A bonfire. A perfect idea. Vegas already has its Volcano, so why not a bonfire? Start it at the Cosmopolitan... also a place unrelated to gambling, just showmanship.
DJTeddyBear
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November 1st, 2016 at 6:58:28 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

From another forum, this was the pic of the Wynn layout.

It's weird that the other center table prop bets use "For 1" while the Feature Bets use "To 1".
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
ahiromu
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November 1st, 2016 at 8:31:56 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: tringlomane

From another forum, this was the pic of the Wynn layout.

It's weird that the other center table prop bets use "For 1" while the Feature Bets use "To 1".



Especially when the original pay tables show "for 1". Perhaps they think people will only remember it being divisible by 5? But then you have an excuse to drop the payoff down another notch.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
Konbu
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November 1st, 2016 at 10:00:04 AM permalink
I'm only focused at the bank/rack. A quick glance and you know it's not the joker's wild.
I CD-ROM.
Doc
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November 1st, 2016 at 11:22:25 AM permalink
Yes, Konbu, the MoGH Chip Guide verifies that the $500 chips are purple with white edge inserts and the $1,000 chips are yellow with double black edge inserts (bananas?).

However, that guide does not identify the white chips and brown chips (chocolates?) near the center of the bank. The only brown chips it shows are solid brown and are the $2 chips from the poker room.

Anyone know what denomination Wynn uses white chips for? And the chocolates?
DJTeddyBear
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November 1st, 2016 at 11:53:56 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

Anyone know what denomination Wynn uses white chips for? And the chocolates?

Since the highest value are in the middle, whites are $5K and brown are $10K.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
DeMango
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November 1st, 2016 at 12:28:42 PM permalink
A reliable source PM'd me that Golden Nugget also went to this payout. Hmmmm, former Wynn properties. Coincidence?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Wizard
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November 1st, 2016 at 1:08:09 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

From another forum, this was the pic of the Wynn layout.



Thank you!
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
RS
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November 1st, 2016 at 1:39:16 PM permalink
Something's telling me the purple cheques are not banked properly...shouldn't the short-stack be on the outside?
mds
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November 1st, 2016 at 3:02:45 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Since the highest value are in the middle, whites are $5K and brown are $10K.



Chocolate chips are 25k..
Doc
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November 1st, 2016 at 4:43:43 PM permalink
Quote: mds

Chocolate chips are 25k..


The only $25,000 Wynn chip I could find in the MoGH Chip Guide was filed along with "prototype" chips, but it doesn't look like any of the other prototypes and was notched to invalidate it. Not sure what the full story is there. That chip was orange with white edge inserts and is shown here. If it isn't a prototype, at least it is from a quite different mold from the other chips regularly in play.
mds
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November 1st, 2016 at 10:39:22 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

The only $25,000 Wynn chip I could find in the MoGH Chip Guide was filed along with "prototype" chips, but it doesn't look like any of the other prototypes and was notched to invalidate it. Not sure what the full story is there. That chip was orange with white edge inserts and is shown here. If it isn't a prototype, at least it is from a quite different mold from the other chips regularly in play.




I just had one couple weeks ago. I have a picture of it but don't know how to upload it.
FleaStiff
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November 1st, 2016 at 11:18:25 PM permalink
You can be sure its properly stacked. The bank is the boxman's job and he gets checked everytime there is a fill or any drop box is removed which usually has to be within two minutes of its scheduled time. There are guys who wear 40/20 glasses or the like and who can add everyone's rack in one glance and add the table bets and the bank, and the dealers stacks. One glance. Thats what they are paid for. They know their stuff. Cold.
wudged
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November 2nd, 2016 at 10:30:20 AM permalink
Mandalay Bay has also moved to this lower payout.
FleaStiff
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November 2nd, 2016 at 11:12:34 AM permalink
Quote: wudged

Mandalay Bay has also moved to this lower payout.

Never give the sucker an even break. Heck, never give the sucker a higher payout, just leech him.
Casinodepositor
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November 3rd, 2016 at 4:39:37 AM permalink
Because they need more money from you. You might be their guest and played a couple of games but that's not even enough for them. Casino always look for other ways to earn you hard earned cash.
onenickelmiracle
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November 3rd, 2016 at 6:50:31 AM permalink
The only way casinos can ever be honest is insisting on higher minimum bets, but they know honesty comes at a price and would rather keep the money. We know what they do isn't fair, but the casino has no shame and nobody can stand against them. David versus Goliath, is just Goliath now. David's ancestors only get their joy when Goliath gets drunk, falls over and dies.
I am a robot.
mds
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November 3rd, 2016 at 9:44:17 PM permalink
Now cosmo reduced the small, tall and all.
onenickelmiracle
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cleaningwindows
November 3rd, 2016 at 10:07:24 PM permalink
It's kind of suspicious how quickly these places are changing their games considering lag time between choosing and getting new felts. I'm not even sure how effective changing the pay will be if people avoid it more. Sounds like a good thing already the way it was being enough of a ripoff. The casinos are really looking desperate looking for coins in the couch cushions.
I am a robot.
beachbumbabs
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November 6th, 2016 at 2:51:53 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

It's kind of suspicious how quickly these places are changing their games considering lag time between choosing and getting new felts. I'm not even sure how effective changing the pay will be if people avoid it more. Sounds like a good thing already the way it was being enough of a ripoff. The casinos are really looking desperate looking for coins in the couch cushions.



The guy I used for my felts had them turned around within 48 hours. I sent the artwork in a vector graphic, he pasted it into his painting program and voila. $150, $100 for reprints. The shipping took longer than the manu. So that's no impediment.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
FleaStiff
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November 6th, 2016 at 5:14:34 AM permalink
Cosmo has always been a disorganized contradictory joint more interested in the swells strutting around than in actual gambling.

When a sharp eyed Pit Boss saw so many sharpies in Biloxi playing Sic Bo... they didn't wait to cut new felt.... they put a yellow post it note with the correct rates on the felt.
mds
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November 30th, 2016 at 4:28:54 PM permalink
Wynn has yet done even more damage.

They just now started charging for valet parking!!

Nice touch Steve W!

http://www.cdcgamingreports.com/wynn-encore-to-start-charging-for-valet-parking/
Boz
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November 30th, 2016 at 5:20:16 PM permalink
Quote: mds

Wynn has yet done even more damage.

They just now started charging for valet parking!!

Nice touch Steve W!

http://www.cdcgamingreports.com/wynn-encore-to-start-charging-for-valet-parking/



Didn't want all the people heading to White Castle parking there now that they have to pay at Harrahs. The Venetian will be next. No benefit in being the only holdout.
smoothgrh
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July 16th, 2018 at 10:00:28 AM permalink
Quote: mds

Wynn has yet done even more damage.

They just now started charging for valet parking!!

Nice touch Steve W!

http://www.cdcgamingreports.com/wynn-encore-to-start-charging-for-valet-parking/



I just noticed a July 13 email from the Wynn:

We're proud to announce that valet or self-parking is now complimentary for resort customers and hotel guests. We invite you to stay, dine, play, see a show, shop, dance, relax and explore—everything you've come to expect from Wynn, except a parking fee.

The hyperlink on "complimentary" takes you to its parking page. Looks as if visitors get only one hour of free self-parking, then it's $7 for 1–2 hours, and it keeps going, but you get 24-hour validation with $50 in resort purchases.
TigerWu
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July 16th, 2018 at 3:52:59 PM permalink
Quote: smoothgrh

I just noticed a July 13 email from the Wynn:

We're proud to announce that valet or self-parking is now complimentary for resort customers and hotel guests. We invite you to stay, dine, play, see a show, shop, dance, relax and explore—everything you've come to expect from Wynn, except a parking fee.



Almost sounds like damage control after that sex scandal, but then again that's been out of the news for, what, several months now?

Could be that some of these casinos are starting to figure out that charging for parking is a stupid idea....
AZDuffman
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Boz
July 16th, 2018 at 6:56:18 PM permalink
Quote: smoothgrh



The hyperlink on "complimentary" takes you to its parking page. Looks as if visitors get only one hour of free self-parking, then it's $7 for 1–2 hours, and it keeps going, but you get 24-hour validation with $50 in resort purchases.



In other words, Reno looks better and better.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
FCBLComish
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July 20th, 2018 at 11:20:22 AM permalink
Quote: smoothgrh

I just noticed a July 13 email from the Wynn:

We're proud to announce that valet or self-parking is now complimentary for resort customers and hotel guests. We invite you to stay, dine, play, see a show, shop, dance, relax and explore—everything you've come to expect from Wynn, except a parking fee.

The hyperlink on "complimentary" takes you to its parking page. Looks as if visitors get only one hour of free self-parking, then it's $7 for 1–2 hours, and it keeps going, but you get 24-hour validation with $50 in resort purchases.



I believe $50 buy-in on Table Games, or $50 inserted into a slot will also qualify you for free parking, but I am not 100% sure if this is the case.
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TigerWu
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July 20th, 2018 at 12:42:07 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman


In other words, Reno looks better and better.



If Las Vegas ever craps the bed I'm taking my casino money to the North East.
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