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FourFiveFace
FourFiveFace
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
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April 1st, 2012 at 9:29:25 PM permalink
Quote: JB

Sometimes you're made to feel like the biggest mistake is playing correctly. At Foxwoods a few years ago I was playing two hands of blackjack (8 decks, S17, DAS, Surrender) at a $25 table, the two hands right before the dealer. Some hotshot young guy approached the table and sat down just to my right. I think he bought in for $300 or $400 and played a few hands. Then he had $200 left, and bet $100. The dealer's upcard was a 6; this guy's initial two cards totalled 8. He asked me if he should double down. I advised against it; he proceeded to double down anyway, betting the rest of his buyin. I don't recall what card he got, as it wasn't relevant. I played my first hand, which I also don't remember. My second hand was a soft 18 (again, the dealer was showing a 6): correct strategy is to double, which I did. I got an 8, making 16. The dealer revealed a 10 in the hole, and then a 4 when she hit, making 20.

What happened next was like a Phil Hellmuth outburst: the young hotshot guy immediately gets up from his seat, pointing out that I took the dealer's bust card, and starts shouting to everyone in the vicinity about how I was such an idiot because I doubled down on 18. He continued to verbally express his disbelief at my "stupidity" to anyone willing to listen for the next several minutes.

I learned a valuable lesson that day: don't play at a blackjack table unless the only other person there is the dealer!



I had a similar situation where someone bitched at me for doubling soft 18 against a 6. It wasn't quite Hellmuth-like, but he was muttering about how I was "greedy" for making that move.

Anyways, a week or so ago, I was playing at mostly full table. One guy at third base was all over the place, doing a lot of plays by feel. The big doozy was when he doubled soft 13 against a dealer 10. You'll never guess what card he drew.

Quote: seviay

That definitely beats the worst I've seen, but I was at a table where a guy kept doubling down on 12/13 against dealer 10s, but he would stay on things like 15, 16, and soft 17 against a dealer 10. We never could figure out what he was doing, just had to hope he would bust out and leave. Doubling on 15 is amazing, even more so with a big bet out. Love it



See, I come across these people every once in awhile, and they perplex the hell out of me. Most people who play the wrong way, I can understand their thought process. People who are inconsistently bad, they just leave me scratching my head.
konceptum
konceptum
Joined: Mar 25, 2010
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April 2nd, 2012 at 1:34:47 PM permalink
Quote: JB

What happened next was like a Phil Hellmuth outburst:


Not sure if this qualifies as a dumb play, but your comment reminded me of it.

Was playing blackjack at a full table. The dealer has a 6 showing, and everybody has stand pat hands. But, a guy in the middle of the table who has a 12, wants a card. The woman sitting to the right of me explodes in a screaming tirade against the stupidity of drawing a card. I think everyone at the table was a bit shocked that this guy wanted to hit, but all of us were a bit cowed by the screaming woman. The dealer asks the guy if he's sure he wants a card. To his credit, the guy appeared to be doing his best to ignore the screaming woman. He nodded. And was dealt a 2. Almost instantly, the woman on my right quiets down. Her arguments about his taking the dealer's bust card have gone out the window. It doesn't end there. Amazingly, the guy signals to hit again. Now the woman leaps out of her chair. Her voice even louder than before. Pit boss is on the phone, security is walking over. She is yelling and screaming about how stupid the guy is. The dealer again asks for confirmation, and the man, seemingly finally noticing the screaming woman, still nods that he wants a card. And gets dealt a 3. Then he stays, everyone else stayed, and the dealer has 16, draws a 10 and busts.

When the dealer busted, I think every one of us, other than the man, looked at the hysterical woman. Her face was bright red from all the screaming. I think we all either wanted to make a comment, or wanted her to make some sort of apology. But she just brushed herself down, and didn't say a word. After the payouts were made, I heard the pit boss (attempting to whisper in her ear) say to her, "If this table is going to be too much for you, you may want to consider moving to a different table." I felt like he made a nodding motion toward the security personnel who were standing nearby. She got the message.

The man continued to make some weird hits and stays, not seemingly in line with any kind of card counting, and most of them did not go in his favor. The woman was still noticeably agitated by his actions, and within 10 minutes or so, left the table.
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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April 2nd, 2012 at 2:28:13 PM permalink
Quote: konceptum

Now the woman leaps out of her chair. Her voice even louder than before.



What I don't understand here is why the casino let her
continue to play even though she made a complete horse's
ass out of herself, and made the entire table uncomfortable.

It seems as often as not that the idiots complaining about
someone's play are not even playing correct basic strategy
themselves on every hand. Go figger.
I remember the thirty-five sweet goodbyes; When you put me on the Wolverine up to Annandale; It was still September When your daddy was quite surprised; To find you with the working girls in the county jail; I was smoking with the boys upstairs when I Heard about the whole affair;I said oh no William and Mary won't do
DanMahowny
DanMahowny
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April 2nd, 2012 at 2:36:39 PM permalink
Quote: JohnnyQ

It seems as often as not that the idiots complaining about
someone's play are not even playing correct basic strategy
themselves on every hand. Go figger.



Yep. People complain about my play occasionally, and I play stone cold perfect basic strategy. Funny, before I learned basic strategy, I can't remember ANYONE complaining about my play decisions.
"I don't have a gambling problem. I have a financial problem."
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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April 2nd, 2012 at 2:37:08 PM permalink
Quote: JohnnyQ

What I don't understand here is why the casino let her
continue to play even though she made a complete horse's
ass



The casino considers all of us to be horses
asses, just some are bigger than others.
They can't get our money if they kick us
out, so they tolerate a lot of rude behavior.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
pacomartin
pacomartin
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April 2nd, 2012 at 4:03:27 PM permalink
Quote: konceptum

Not sure if this qualifies as a dumb play, but your comment reminded me of it. Was playing blackjack at a full table. The dealer has a 6 showing, and everybody has stand pat hands. But, a guy in the middle of the table who has a 12, wants a card.



I think it is how some people are taught blackjack. Sometimes people are told the one who gets closest to 21 wins the game. BTW you can't go over 21. He just thinks a 16 is closer to 21 than 12.

I think it would be a good exercise to sit down with the infinite deck analysis, and write down a list of all the plays in basic strategy.
I will break them up into ones that are intuitive to a well reasoned argument, and tear apart the ones that are non-intuitive. It should be possible to explain to people exactly where the advantage comes from.

It would be lengthy as many choices are complex. For instance a player 12 against a dealer up card 4, would look like

You should hit when your composition is a 10 and a 2, which happens the majority of the time when you have a 12,
but in the other cases the advantage is to hit. The extra advantage outweighs the smaller percentage of occurrences, so the abbreviated rule is to stand on a player 12 against a dealer 4.

It may not be worth the trouble.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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April 2nd, 2012 at 4:10:15 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I think it is how some people are taught blackjack. Sometimes people are told the one who gets closest to 21 wins the game. BTW you can't go over 21. He just thinks a 16 is closer to 21 than 12...

It should be possible to explain to people exactly where the advantage comes from...

It may not be worth the trouble.



You can't teach a drunk dog any tricks. In fact, you can't teach a dumb dog any tricks either, but you might be able to get the dumb dog to drink.

It's definitely not worth the trouble for the customers who like to blow up. They don't/won't care.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
FourFiveFace
FourFiveFace
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
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April 2nd, 2012 at 4:10:47 PM permalink
I like reading blackjack articles that attempt to explain the logic behind basic strategy plays in addition to the math. I don't think "because the math says so" cuts the mustard for the average Joe or Jane.
Nareed
Nareed
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April 2nd, 2012 at 4:45:06 PM permalink
Quote: FourFiveFace

I don't think "because the math says so" cuts the mustard for the average Joe or Jane.



You can show the average person all the math you want and you may convince a few. But let one moron say "you know, the casinos wrote the strategy card," and back he goes to irrational play.
You can visit my blog Kathy's Cooking Corner at kathyscookingcorner.blogspot.mx ... .... When someone offers you friendship with one hand and stabs you in the back with the other, you tend to notice the knife a little bit more.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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April 2nd, 2012 at 8:28:44 PM permalink
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him split 8's against a 10.

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