Rules after Misdeal

In response to SOOPOO.

If I was Player 3, I would tell Player 1 that's he's being an idiot and that asking the dealer to take a 5 is a VERY STUPID play.

If Player 3 takes the deal and stands, the dealer will take a 5 if he has under 17. The only way that Player 1 can win in that scenario is if the dealer has a 2 under his hand, pulls the 5, and then pulls a 6 or higher to bust.

- According to Wizards BJ Appendix 5, S17, the EV of 17 on 9 is -$423.20 (on $1,000 bet).
- The EV for player 1 offering the deal and Player 3 taking it is: $1,000 * (1/13 * 8/13) - $1000 * (10/13) - $,1000 x (1/13 * 4/13)
- $50 (money paid to Player 3). = -$795.56.

So, if Player 3 takes the deal, Player 1 will lose an extra $372.36, on average.

But for Player 3, his EV for not taking the deal is $50 x (11/13) (dealer has A, 10, 9, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3) + $50 x (1/13) x (1/13) (Dealer has 2, pulls a 5 + 5) = $42.60.
If Player 3 takes the deal, his EV is 50 - $25 x (12/13) (dealer has A, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3) - $25 x (1/13) x (5/13) (Dealer has 2, takes a A - 5 to make hand) = $26.18.

So Player 3 should call Player 1 an idiot, explain the logic, and tell him to go screw himself if he gets mad.

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If I am the house then, I couldn't do anything about the deal anyway but I would EMPHATICALLY take that action.

Quote: boymimbo

In response to SOOPOO.

If I was Player 3, I would tell Player 1 that's he's being an idiot and that asking the dealer to take a 5 is a VERY STUPID play.

If Player 3 takes the deal and stands, the dealer will take a 5 if he has under 17. The only way that Player 1 can win in that scenario is if the dealer has a 2 under his hand, pulls the 5, and then pulls a 6 or higher to bust.

- According to Wizards BJ Appendix 5, S17, the EV of 17 on 9 is -$423.20 (on $1,000 bet).
- The EV for player 1 offering the deal and Player 3 taking it is: $1,000 * (1/13 * 8/13) - $1000 * (10/13) - $,1000 x (1/13 * 4/13)
- $50 (money paid to Player 3). = -$795.56.

So, if Player 3 takes the deal, Player 1 will lose an extra $372.36, on average.

But for Player 3, his EV for not taking the deal is $50 x (11/13) (dealer has A, 10, 9, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3) + $50 x (1/13) x (1/13) (Dealer has 2, pulls a 5 + 5) = $42.60.
If Player 3 takes the deal, his EV is 50 - $25 x (12/13) (dealer has A, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3) - $25 x (1/13) x (5/13) (Dealer has 2, takes a A - 5 to make hand) = $26.18.

So Player 3 should call Player 1 an idiot, explain the logic, and tell him to go screw himself if he gets mad.

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If I am the house then, I couldn't do anything about the deal anyway but I would EMPHATICALLY take that action.

I think that this is still Euro-no hole card ... so the 5 would give the dealer 14..

Quote: 1BB

Other than verifying that the 5 is the next card to be played they stay out of it. If I were player 3 I would decline player one's offer and double down.

An offer of $100 from Player 1 would be appropriate, because player 3 would get exactly what would be won (and risked) with the very comfortable 21 double down, plus he be freerolling his $25 bet with a 16 against a dealer 14 (and he gets to keep the $25 he would have thrown onto the felt for the double down...so maybe $75 is the correct offer...)

Quote: cclub79

I think that this is still Euro-no hole card ... so the 5 would give the dealer 14..

Correct, this is the scenario I was describing. Its too bad boymim spent so much time discussing something else....

I hate having to explain the logic on my hitting my A7 against the dealers T all the time, lol. A lot of people who don't even know basic strategy at the tables, love to tell everyone else how to play their hands, lol.

Quote: EdgeLooker

I hate having to explain the logic on my hitting my A7 against the dealers T all the time, lol. A lot of people who don't even know basic strategy at the tables, love to tell everyone else how to play their hands, lol.

When I played at the Greenbrier two years ago, the folks at the table were discussing reasons for various bets -- mathematics, emotions, etc. On one hand, the player to my left (who was betting a bunch more than I was but didn't seem to really understand the game) received an A-7 vs. a dealer face card and said, "Now what the heck am I supposed to do with that?" I didn't want to act as if I were telling him what to do, so I asked whether he wanted to know what the mathematicians would say. He indicated he would, so I replied, "They would say to hit." When he was dealt a 3, he was happy, and I was relieved that I didn't have to explain or leave.

I know many here say they feel uncomfortable giving any advice, which is why I limit mine to (only when asked 'what am i supposed to do?!'): "The book says ____." Not that any of those amateur players know what any "book" is or why, but it makes it simple. I think I took it from the average response from most dealers. (Many say nothing, many are chatty, but median is "The book says _____." Never any more than that, and it's never gotten me into any trouble if the player loses...

Ah, European Blackjack. I'll shut up then.