Saw a backoff at Mirage.

One of the simplest covers is to not start over with your minimum bet on a fresh shuffle. Come big off the top, and don't just perfectly correlate your bets to the count, which is what these guys were doing. I don't think this is a secret to anyone.

Quote: teddys

One of the simplest covers is to not start over with your minimum bet on a fresh shuffle. Come big off the top, and don't just perfectly correlate your bets to the count, which is what these guys were doing. I don't think this is a secret to anyone.

It also works to occasionally chase a loss. You can even play it to your benefit and spread more if the count is improving.

All these covers are fine, but they dilute the purpose
of counting to such a degree that its almost not worth
it. It used to be, most of the pit couldn't count, or
couldn't do it well. Now they can and they do it as
well as you do. You can have a sex change operation
and all they'll see is your action.

Quote: EvenBob

All these covers are fine, but they dilute the purpose
of counting to such a degree that its almost not worth
it.

Depends on your unit size. If you're betting big enough and have the bankroll to back it, you can handle more camo because the size of your expected win goes up linearly with your unit size, offsetting the decrease in your win percentage. This is the idea behind Andersen's "Ultimate Gambit" strategy. Yes, I know the book is 12 years old, but I just finished reading it a few months ago, so forgive the references. The theory holds true even if it that exact strategy wouldn't work in practice today (I'm sure it wouldn't).

Quote:

It used to be, most of the pit couldn't count, or
couldn't do it well. Now they can and they do it as
well as you do. You can have a sex change operation
and all they'll see is your action.

The point of the disguises isn't to get them to ignore your action - it's to delay the recognition process and hence buy you some time. I've never used a disguise since I've never been backed off anywhere yet, but I understand the idea. It's not like these guys think the disguise is going to magically let them get away with a huge spread and no camouflage, they just don't want to get backed off immediately because their picture is hanging up in the pit. They still have to use all the same cautionary tactics.

Look, I'm not trying to say counting cards and getting away with it is easy. The theory is easy, but as you (and Face and Dan) have mentioned, it's extremely difficult to execute in practice. I just look at it as a challenge...

Quote: EvenBob

You can have a sex change operation and all they'll see is your action.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Depends on your unit size.

Wait... What???

Quote: EvenBob

All these covers are fine, but they dilute the purpose
of counting to such a degree that its almost not worth
it. It used to be, most of the pit couldn't count, or
couldn't do it well. Now they can and they do it as
well as you do. You can have a sex change operation
and all they'll see is your action.

Have you made Nareed aware of this?

Quote: SOOPOO

Have you made Nareed aware of this?

I don't count cards. :P

I don't even play blackjack

Quote: EvenBob

It used to be, most of the pit couldn't count, or couldn't do it well. Now they can and they do it as well as you do.

I'm pretty sure very few people in the pit know how to count cards. They may know the basics and understand certain theories, but they aren't counting shoes with you. They DO know how to spot betting patterns, and when they see someone they suspect, they call surveillance, who does the counting. Then they get the call back with the go ahead. But I would guess the majority of pit supervisors couldn't count cards if their job depended on it.

double

Quote: Tiltpoul

I'm pretty sure very few people in the pit know how to count cards.

How many does it take in the pit and in surveillance?
Not many. 20 years ago none of them did.