Poll

2 votes (20%)
2 votes (20%)
3 votes (30%)
3 votes (30%)
2 votes (20%)
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1 vote (10%)
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10 members have voted

Wizard
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Wizard
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July 23rd, 2017 at 4:13:43 PM permalink
On my European vacation I noticed a new blackjack side bet at the Grand Casino Brussels called Perfect 11's. It wins if the player's first two cards total 11, including a blackjack. The win depends on the composition of the 11 and something three dice that are blank on five sides and with an infinity symbol on one side.

Please click the Perfect 11's link for the rules and my analysis. As usual, I welcome all questions, comments, and especially corrections.

The question for the poll is would you bet on the Perfect 11's if playing blackjack anyway?

P.S. I hope this is an infinity symbol: ∞
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
onenickelmiracle
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July 23rd, 2017 at 10:40:15 PM permalink
I'd really like to see that dome they shoot the dice in. Do they set the dice any certain way or let them sit as they landed the last time? I'm picturing a bigger version of the little plastic device used in Trouble.

I think I would like the side bet, but only for the novelty, and only temporarily until bored. It's an impulse bet, so that makes sense. I think you make the bet just to use and see the device work.
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Wizard
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July 24th, 2017 at 8:01:36 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

I'd really like to see that dome they shoot the dice in. Do they set the dice any certain way or let them sit as they landed the last time? I'm picturing a bigger version of the little plastic device used in Trouble.





I haven't heard anyone mention that game in about 40 years, so I had to look up what the game looked like. Yep, pretty much a glorified version of that. However, the dome is about 8" high and the base vibrates pretty good, like in Bubble Craps. Seems like a fair shake to me.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
DJTeddyBear
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July 24th, 2017 at 8:13:54 AM permalink
Just another goofy side bet to get the little bitties all riled up if you don't play it and hit a paying hand.

Pass.



Quote: Wizard

P.S. I hope this is an infinity symbol: ∞

Yep.


Quote: Wizard

I haven't heard anyone mention that game in about 40 years, so I had to look up what the game looked like.

I think it was mentioned in threads when the bubble craps was first introduced - complete with the actual name.

:: nerd alert ::

It's called Pop-O-Matic!
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beachbumbabs
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July 24th, 2017 at 8:17:50 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Just another goofy side bet to get the little bitties all riled up if you don't play it and hit a paying hand.

Pass.



Yep.


I think it was mentioned in threads when the bubble craps was first introduced - complete with the actual name.

:: nerd alert ::

It's called Pop-O-Matic!



Good trivia question. I did remember that, fwiw. I found it fascinating when I was about 4. The commercials, in between Sat am cartoons, always made a big deal about that being in the game board.
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Wizard
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July 24th, 2017 at 9:52:04 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Good trivia question. I did remember that, fwiw. I found it fascinating when I was about 4. The commercials, in between Sat am cartoons, always made a big deal about that being in the game board.



Kids are always losing pieces to games. The built in pop-o-matic is not a bad idea.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Ibeatyouraces
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July 24th, 2017 at 10:46:37 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Kids are always losing pieces to games. The built in pop-o-matic is not a bad idea.


Losing the dice isn't the problem with that game, Trouble. It's losing the game pieces that is.
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Hunterhill
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July 24th, 2017 at 11:29:15 AM permalink
We had Headache instead of trouble.
If you held the bubble down when you pushed it you could control the die somewhat,or maybe I just thought i could control the die.
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Ayecarumba
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July 24th, 2017 at 1:14:17 PM permalink
Correction: The "Returns" are usually noted as negative values... unless this game has a 71% positive return..

hehe... the fact that a side game with a $10+ usd minimum, and a 70% house edge can get a trial in Amsterdam is the reason legal weed is a bad thing.


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Wizard
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July 24th, 2017 at 1:53:28 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Correction: The "Returns" are usually noted as negative values... unless this game has a 71% positive return..



When wins are on a "for one" basis, I typically express the bottom line as a return. For example, the return for 9/6 Jacks or Better is 99.54%. Seldom does anyone say it has a house edge of 0.46%. Since this game had a flat bet amount and wins were all "for one" I expressed the results in "return" form, as opposed to "expected value." So, just the fixed wins return 70%, not to mention all the progressives. So the house edge is at most 30%.
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Wizard
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July 24th, 2017 at 1:55:27 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Losing the dice isn't the problem with that game, Trouble. It's losing the game pieces that is.



Speaking of toys with missing pieces, does anyone remember the Smash Up Derby Cars?

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Rigondeaux
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July 24th, 2017 at 3:11:33 PM permalink
What were your impressions of European casinos in general?

I probably shouldn't post this. However, I would just keep a count on all of the cards that can be used to make an 11.
Ibeatyouraces
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July 24th, 2017 at 3:16:05 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

I probably shouldn't post this. However, I would just keep a count on all of the cards that can be used to make an 11.



That would be too easy.
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Wizard
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July 24th, 2017 at 5:37:43 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

What were your impressions of European casinos in general?



I plan to write about the two I visited. I enjoyed the casino in Amsterdam much more than the one in Brussels, mainly because the players in Brussels were so rude and mean. More details to come.

Quote:

I probably shouldn't post this. However, I would just keep a count on all of the cards that can be used to make an 11.



There was a continuous shuffler on the game.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
tyler498
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July 25th, 2017 at 10:19:41 AM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux



I probably shouldn't post this. However, I would just keep a count on all of the cards that can be used to make an 11.



Isn't that all the cards?
Wizard
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July 25th, 2017 at 11:38:43 AM permalink
Quote: tyler498

Isn't that all the cards?



Touche! If they didn't use a continuous shuffler, I'd do something like this:

Ace: -8
2 to 9: +1
10's and faces: 0

I haven't done an effect of removal study, just making an educated guess.
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Rigondeaux
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July 25th, 2017 at 11:48:13 AM permalink
Quote: tyler498

Isn't that all the cards?



Yeah. It was a joke. Though smarter people might figure something out, like the wiz shows.
gordonm888
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July 25th, 2017 at 3:58:29 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Touche! If they didn't use a continuous shuffler, I'd do something like this:

Ace: -8
2 to 9: +1
10's and faces: 0

I haven't done an effect of removal study, just making an educated guess.



<FACESLAP>

Um, you see, I think that the only card that really counts is the Jackpot Ace. Given the (nominal) sizes of the progressive jackpots you report, and ignoring the mystery jackpot as you did, I calculate that if you bet the minimum and get halfway through the six deck shoe and the Jackpot Ace is not yet out then the player has about a 4% advantage over the house on this bet.

Here are some EOR calculations, these values are how much the player EV changes if you remove one of these cards from a six deck shoe.:

Jackpot Ace: - 0.1634
Other Ace: - 0.0098
King, Spades: - 0.0127
King, Other: -0.001781
2-Q: + 0.0019

The three caveats are:
- progressive jackpot sizes can be smaller (or larger) than what you posted
- given the fixed size of the progressive jackpots (independent of the size of your wager), these only apply to the minimum bet size of 10 euros.
- apparently, from your comment above, they may use a continuous shuffler, lol
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