If you ran a casino would you allow a 7 card charlie in BJ
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 | 7 votes (87.5%) | ||
| | 1 vote (12.5%) |
8 members have voted
July 4th, 2017 at 11:00:39 PM
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There is a detailed explanation of the charlie rule here by wizard: https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/charlie/
Basically a 7 card charlie means if the player's hand has 7 cards without busting, he automatically wins.
For example, a player can have A,4,5,2,A,3,3 and dealer has 20. Even though the player has 19, he wins.
This rule only reduces house edge by 0.01%
I was thinking, if I ran a casino I definitely would add this rule. First of all, adding any player-friendly rule to your blackjack makes it more attractive compared to the others. And this rule costs a fraction of any other player friendly rule such as surrender or dealer stands 17.
Secondly, there will probably be enough poppies wrongly chasing the charlie and probably would result in an average increase in house edge.
I would definitely do that if I were the casino owner. But for some reason I don't see this being done out there.
I wonder why?
Basically a 7 card charlie means if the player's hand has 7 cards without busting, he automatically wins.
For example, a player can have A,4,5,2,A,3,3 and dealer has 20. Even though the player has 19, he wins.
This rule only reduces house edge by 0.01%
I was thinking, if I ran a casino I definitely would add this rule. First of all, adding any player-friendly rule to your blackjack makes it more attractive compared to the others. And this rule costs a fraction of any other player friendly rule such as surrender or dealer stands 17.
Secondly, there will probably be enough poppies wrongly chasing the charlie and probably would result in an average increase in house edge.
I would definitely do that if I were the casino owner. But for some reason I don't see this being done out there.
I wonder why?
July 4th, 2017 at 11:06:00 PM
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Probs. If I was a casino owner I would offer the best standard blackjack rules but keep the penetration as low as possible.
Or just use rigged chinese decks.
Or just use rigged chinese decks.
July 5th, 2017 at 12:15:22 AM
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Quote: NeutrinoSecondly, there will probably be enough poppies wrongly chasing the charlie and probably would result in an average increase in house edge.
I think the same can be applied to surrender. Many people don't know what it is. When I would surrender and a player would ask what I did, I said I surrendered my bet and got 50% back (or a 50% guaranteed loss). Some say something stupid like, "Never surrender! What are you, chicken?" Others will see this and a light bulb will go off in their head and they'll start surrendering way too frequently....I was at a table once where all the other players would just surrender their 12-16's vs 7-A.
July 5th, 2017 at 12:24:06 AM
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I would allow a 7-card Charlie and have a sign visible either on the table or above the table to emphasis the gimmick but I would offer a horrible game like 8-decks, H17, Late Surrender(yes you heard me, for all the bad surrender plays to occur at the wrong times and the good surrenders that usually don't occur). I would offer average penetration and at least 2 side-bets to slow the game down to a crawl while making tons off those side-bets. I would put experienced fast dealers on those tables and have the newer dealers deal something like UTH and 4-card and 3-card. No need to make the game a Double 9,10,11 game as I would like to portray to the customers that they have more options in terms of action when the goal is the gut them via the two side-bets and speed.
Wanda Wilcox: I cant stand people. I hate them.
Chinaski: Oh, yeah?
Wanda: You hate them?
Chinaski: No, but I seem to feel better when theyre not around.
Barfly, starring Mickey Rourke
July 5th, 2017 at 12:45:01 AM
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A few years ago, a casino( maybe Sahara?) offered a strange surrender. If player had 20, and dealer showed a 10, player could surrender his hand for a 1/2 win. If you had a $20 bet out, you would win $10. I saw more people giving away money than at a typical charity dinner. I'd most certainly offer that at any casino I ran.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
July 5th, 2017 at 4:47:51 AM
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The edge is mathematically etched in stone. Bad ploppy play increases the HOLD.Quote: Neutrino... there will probably be enough poppies wrongly chasing the charlie and probably would result in an average increase in house edge.
But, yeah. Charlie, surrender, whatever.
Give them more rope to hang themselves with.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
July 5th, 2017 at 5:47:33 AM
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i would allow 7card Charlie and double deck.Quote: gamerfreakProbs. If I was a casino owner I would offer the best standard blackjack rules but keep the penetration as low as possible.
Or just use rigged chinese decks.
but If I owned the casino, I would also instruct the dealers to shuffle when the count is +2
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
July 5th, 2017 at 6:14:26 AM
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I would not as it would just tease the player with something of very little benefit. It would be like giving away a t-shirt if a shooter could achieve at least 100 throws in craps. A six-card Charlie rule I might do.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
July 5th, 2017 at 6:57:17 AM
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I'd give them 8 decks, dealer hits soft 17, ENHC, even money pay on blackjack, double 11 only, no resplits, no surrender. They'd still flock to it.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
July 5th, 2017 at 8:09:05 AM
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Until I read Mike's response above, I didn't realize we were talking about a seven Card Charlie. In fact, I forgot that Charlie comes in three flavors.
According to his page about Charlie: https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/charlie/ the edge is lowered 1.46 for 5 card, 0.16 for 6 card and 0.01 for 7 card. I agree, if you're gonna do it, give them the 6 card version. But the 5 card version gives away too much. So much that APs might jump all over it.
But upon reading the WOO page, I gotta ask about the strategies charts listed. Shouldn't there be strategies for all three flavors? After all, if you're 1 away from a 7 card, you have more low cards in your hand than if you're 1 away from a 6 card, etc.
Or is that part of what you defer to Wong's strategies for?
According to his page about Charlie: https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/charlie/ the edge is lowered 1.46 for 5 card, 0.16 for 6 card and 0.01 for 7 card. I agree, if you're gonna do it, give them the 6 card version. But the 5 card version gives away too much. So much that APs might jump all over it.
But upon reading the WOO page, I gotta ask about the strategies charts listed. Shouldn't there be strategies for all three flavors? After all, if you're 1 away from a 7 card, you have more low cards in your hand than if you're 1 away from a 6 card, etc.
Or is that part of what you defer to Wong's strategies for?
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
July 5th, 2017 at 8:55:43 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearOr is that part of what you defer to Wong's strategies for?
You don't need Wong, I have a page on how to play Charlie rules.
BTW, one of the mysteries of blackjack is where this term Charlie comes from, as in a six-card Charlie. Then again, maybe Paco knows.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
July 5th, 2017 at 8:58:49 AM
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A few years ago, Greektown had the 6 card Charlie rule for a while. The only place I've seen any of them other than the video blackjack on the Game Kings.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
July 5th, 2017 at 12:44:28 PM
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Quote: 100xOddsi would allow 7card Charlie and double deck.
but If I owned the casino, I would also instruct the dealers to shuffle when the count is +2
I thought preferential shuffling is illegal?
July 5th, 2017 at 12:52:01 PM
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Quote: WizardI would not as it would just tease the player with something of very little benefit. It would be like giving away a t-shirt if a shooter could achieve at least 100 throws in craps. A six-card Charlie rule I might do.
They wouldn't know that. I mean some might but Most of them if you ask probably would not know the advantage is only a tiny 0.01%
July 5th, 2017 at 3:02:58 PM
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If I had a 7-card Charlie rule, it would not only be an automatic winner but have a payout of at least 3:1. Maybe 5:1 would be better. BJ needs more ways for the player to occasionally feel as if they have hit the jackpot.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
July 5th, 2017 at 4:48:43 PM
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Quote: gordonm888If I had a 7-card Charlie rule, it would not only be an automatic winner but have a payout of at least 3:1. Maybe 5:1 would be better. BJ needs more ways for the player to occasionally feel as if they have hit the jackpot.
This is why side bets and carnival games are so popular. Can't tell you how many times I've been told that betting Ante only in 3CP is stupid because you "can't win that way".
July 5th, 2017 at 5:07:08 PM
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Well come on... everyone hip knows the pair plus is "where the money's at."Quote: gamerfreakThis is why side bets and carnival games are so popular. Can't tell you how many times I've been told that betting Ante only in 3CP is stupid because you "can't win that way".
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
July 5th, 2017 at 5:09:44 PM
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Quote: RomesWell come on... everyone hip knows the pair plus is "where the money's at."
And the trips bet, and the perfect pairs, and the dollar progessive.
My casino would have a pit of nothing but side bets.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
July 5th, 2017 at 5:18:58 PM
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Quote: 100xOddsi would allow 7card Charlie and double deck.
but If I owned the casino, I would also instruct the dealers to shuffle when the count is +2
So you would instruct your dealers to cheat,is what you're saying.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
July 5th, 2017 at 8:00:47 PM
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That is not the case for Blackjack. The house edge for a poor player is much higher than the edge for someone that always sticks to basic strategy. The Hold would go up due to the increased edge on poorer play (chasing Charlies).Quote: DJTeddyBearThe edge is mathematically etched in stone. Bad ploppy play increases the HOLD.
July 5th, 2017 at 8:31:37 PM
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how s that cheating?Quote: HunterhillSo you would instruct your dealers to cheat,is what you're saying.
you're allowed to shuffle early
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
July 5th, 2017 at 8:37:25 PM
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Win if you can, lose if you must,
But always, always cheat.
But always, always cheat.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
July 5th, 2017 at 9:00:02 PM
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Quote: 100xOddshow s that cheating?
you're allowed to shuffle early
It is destroying the randomness of the game,its not the same as shuffling up when someone is winning,or because someone raised their bet.
There is a regulation about altering the odds of the game which it clearly does.
I don't recall which statute it is,perhaps someone else does.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
July 5th, 2017 at 9:15:24 PM
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Quote: billryanWin if you can, lose if you must,
But always, always cheat.
One of James Janos' famous lines.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
July 5th, 2017 at 9:26:51 PM
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You remind me of my Great-uncle Ernie. Family card games. He was an amusing, known cheat. Nobody was allowed to get mad at him; if you let him in the game, you were on notice he would cheat any way possible, but would laugh and surrender if you could catch him.
Haven't thought about him in years. Thanks for the smile.
Haven't thought about him in years. Thanks for the smile.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
July 5th, 2017 at 10:35:59 PM
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I can't imagine a casino would get fined or in any type of trouble for preferential shuffling. The best shot at it would be if a dealer admitted to it, but even then, gaming commissions aren't necessarily known for "thinking it through". If you play a promotion, say double on RF, and you hit a RF and they don't give you the bonus, I wouldn't be surprised if gaming said something like, "well you hit a RF and should be happy you won. The casino can alter a promotion any time they want", as if you would have been playing that game whether they had that promo or not.
I'd probably offer the worst games and have really good marketting.
A thought on 6 card charlie I hadn't really thought of before -- remember, people are stupid. If they have a 5 card 13 vs 2, they won't hit it because "you're not supposed to hit a 13 vs 2! Read the book!!" Sure some might play too aggressively, but for those players, they won't have 4 or 5 card hands that seem hittable frequently enough to make it seem worth hitting for the 6 card charlie.
I'd probably offer the worst games and have really good marketting.
A thought on 6 card charlie I hadn't really thought of before -- remember, people are stupid. If they have a 5 card 13 vs 2, they won't hit it because "you're not supposed to hit a 13 vs 2! Read the book!!" Sure some might play too aggressively, but for those players, they won't have 4 or 5 card hands that seem hittable frequently enough to make it seem worth hitting for the 6 card charlie.
July 6th, 2017 at 12:05:16 AM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesA few years ago, Greektown had the 6 card Charlie rule for a while. The only place I've seen any of them other than the video blackjack on the Game Kings.
Yeah, I got one at Bellagio once while playing for beer.
You could be like this e-table game at TAG Lounge at Linq and offer a 10-card Charlie. It's theoretically possible!!!
July 6th, 2017 at 7:41:34 AM
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Quote: RSI can't imagine a casino would get fined or in any type of trouble for preferential shuffling. The best shot at it would be if a dealer admitted to it, but even then, gaming commissions aren't necessarily known for "thinking it through". If you play a promotion, say double on RF, and you hit a RF and they don't give you the bonus, I wouldn't be surprised if gaming said something like, "well you hit a RF and should be happy you won. The casino can alter a promotion any time they want", as if you would have been playing that game whether they had that promo or not.
I deal with Gaming agents and regulators quite often and I doubt if 2% would say that if they understood the promotion. The real problem is that many really don't understand gambling. I recently had an argument with an agent that said that I can not offer slot machines that force you to bet more than the denomination of the game. His argument was that if you have a one cent denom slot machine it must let you bet as little as one cent. This guy has been with Gaming over ten years, when I explained to him that about half of the machines on the strip don't allow this. His response was that he is going to go shut them all down. I just laughed and let it go.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
July 6th, 2017 at 11:51:53 AM
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Quote: tringlomaneYeah, I got one at Bellagio once while playing for beer.
You could be like this e-table game at TAG Lounge at Linq and offer a 10-card Charlie. It's theoretically possible!!!
wow I didn't know 10 card charlie was a thing. They should at least make it jackpot ish like 100:1 payout
July 6th, 2017 at 11:55:23 AM
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"Theoretically", you can make a 21 card Charlie of you so wish to try.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
July 6th, 2017 at 12:03:44 PM
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Quote: Ibeatyouraces"Theoretically", you can make a 21 card Charlie of you so wish to try.
That reminds me of the video someone posted about splitting tens, where the guy kept saying, "¡Otra vez!"
July 6th, 2017 at 12:08:34 PM
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Our blackjack table in our charity poker room had unlimited resplit rule.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
