D Day in Vegas

FWIW they show you the cards in PA/NJ as well.

Quote: ZenKinG

...Running CVCX, there was about a 5% chance of me losing 7k as well. Yes short term data, but doesnt matter, still a rare event...

Yes, yes that does matter that it's short term data. In the short term you're EXPECTED to see higher spikes in variance.

Quote: ZenKinG

...I just dont understand why I get attacked or lose credibility for simply asking an honest question...

Okay, I'm gonna give you some real/harsh truth AS A FRIEND and I hope you take it that way... You're a brash little brat that doesn't know sh*t about the BJ world in Vegas. EVERYTHING you've said about cheating has been said a MILLION times before you. It's been hashed out, worked out, others have won at the same places you're losing, others have demanded to see cards, others have called in gaming to ask for inspections (some got ignored but some got to see the cards). We also have dealers and bosses that give us the INSIDE look at casinos and casino procedures (such as what RS has been telling you about his dealing experience). 99% of the time the casino IS NOT CHEATING. Everyone knows this and takes it as fact because we've got the experience enough to understand this is NOT SOME NEW TOPIC. It's been said and done over DECADES of playing and you don't realize that because you have the tiniest sliver EVER in to the BJ community as a professional. It's more likely that your game is not as good as you think than it is the casino cheating. YES, that could be wrong, YES you could still get cheated, but the likely hood is VERY VERY LOW and for you to make these claims just makes you look like someone who doesn't know your own surroundings, which damages your credibility because you're willing to shoot your mouth off before doing some real homework and putting real effort in to solving them first for yourself. I get that sometimes your rants are outlets to vent, but as I mentioned already in this thread you need to find a new outlet that doesn't burn bridges that you don't even know exist (as someone else just said).

You want some credibility? FIND A WAY to get them to show you the cards for yourself, and then ADMIT when they're all there that YOU JUST FLAT OUT LOSS. Why do you think I'm willing to put up $10k when I'm in town that you name a "major strip casino" that you think is cheating you and I'll FIND A WAY to make the PB turn over the cards. When they're all there you lose your $10k... Why do you think you won't put up that money for that bet? It shows that deep down you know or feel more majorly that they are all in fact there. When you're that confident in something, especially with people on these forums, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS... Otherwise people will just see a loud mouth shooting off redundant claims they've heard for decades without a shred of evidence nor being willing to put his own backing on them. That's why you lose credibility.

Again - I hope you read and re-read that and pull out the advice that I'm trying to help give you.

I won over $15,000 (not including free play, cash back, comps, etc.) on single line 25¢ 9/6 JoB and NSUD last year between March and December. I must've been cheating since the casino had the edge and lost over a 10 month period.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I won over $15,000 (not including free play, cash back, comps, etc.) on single line 25¢ 9/6 JoB and NSUD last year between March and December. I must've been cheating since the casino had the edge and lost over a 10 month period.

You know how much coin in or # of hands over that period of +$15k winnin's on 25c 9/6 JOB+NSUD?

Quote: RS

You know how much coin in or # of hands over that period of +$15k winnin's on 25c 9/6 JOB+NSUD?

I didn't keep track of that. It was the ridiculous number of royals I had.

On the flip side, April and May of this year took a big chunk of it back!

Quote: ZenKinG

...Running CVCX, there was about a 5% chance of me losing 7k as well. Yes short term data, but doesnt matter, still a rare event...

Directly from CVDATA: "Note: Simulations under 200,000,000 rounds are meaningless."

There's no way you've played enough BJ in a few months time to yield statistically significant data that would show the casino is cheating.

When did they move the SLS downtown?

ZK: have you considered the possibility that The Russians! hacked the table? It makes about as much sense.

Quote: billryan

When did they move the SLS downtown?

Interesting note... My host at the Golden Nugget looked me square in the face and told me that this Casino is downtown in location but it is considered a Strip Casino after I had a question/dispute with him!! I bet the people at the SLS consider themselves a Strip Casino even though they are on the border of the "Naked City" neighborhood!

My favorite was a couple of years ago when the El Cortez bought that block long parking lot and announced their new Law Vegas Blvd entrance. Bet most of you didn't realize the EC was on the Blvd.

Quote: billryan

My favorite was a couple of years ago when the El Cortez bought that block long parking lot and announced their new Law Vegas Blvd entrance. Bet most of you didn't realize the EC was on the Blvd.

Of course it is. El Cortez is center strip and Jerry's Nugget north strip.

Quote: DRich

ZK, I moved to Vegas about 28 years ago to count cards. About three months in I took a dealer job for about three weeks so that I could make sure I completely understood the game from both sides. Maybe you should give that a try.

I am also willing to bet you $5,000 that if we pick a random strip casino that I can show you that they are not using pre-shuffled cards and that they spread the deck out for you to see every card. If you are right and they are pre-shuffled you win $5k, if I am right I win $5k and you win peace of mind. When would you like to do this?

That's funny because I've had several pit bosses tell me straight to my face they use PRE SHUFFLED cards. Not sure if every casino uses Chinese Cards but the Wynn and Encore for sure use them. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't hear it with my own two ears. Maybe the pit boss was just spouting BS?

Quote: Romes

Yes, yes that does matter that it's short term data. In the short term you're EXPECTED to see higher spikes in variance.

Okay, I'm gonna give you some real/harsh truth AS A FRIEND and I hope you take it that way... You're a brash little brat that doesn't know sh*t about the BJ world in Vegas. EVERYTHING you've said about cheating has been said a MILLION times before you. It's been hashed out, worked out, others have won at the same places you're losing, others have demanded to see cards, others have called in gaming to ask for inspections (some got ignored but some got to see the cards). We also have dealers and bosses that give us the INSIDE look at casinos and casino procedures (such as what RS has been telling you about his dealing experience). 99% of the time the casino IS NOT CHEATING. Everyone knows this and takes it as fact because we've got the experience enough to understand this is NOT SOME NEW TOPIC. It's been said and done over DECADES of playing and you don't realize that because you have the tiniest sliver EVER in to the BJ community as a professional. It's more likely that your game is not as good as you think than it is the casino cheating. YES, that could be wrong, YES you could still get cheated, but the likely hood is VERY VERY LOW and for you to make these claims just makes you look like someone who doesn't know your own surroundings, which damages your credibility because you're willing to shoot your mouth off before doing some real homework and putting real effort in to solving them first for yourself. I get that sometimes your rants are outlets to vent, but as I mentioned already in this thread you need to find a new outlet that doesn't burn bridges that you don't even know exist (as someone else just said).

You want some credibility? FIND A WAY to get them to show you the cards for yourself, and then ADMIT when they're all there that YOU JUST FLAT OUT LOSS. Why do you think I'm willing to put up $10k when I'm in town that you name a "major strip casino" that you think is cheating you and I'll FIND A WAY to make the PB turn over the cards. When they're all there you lose your $10k... Why do you think you won't put up that money for that bet? It shows that deep down you know or feel more majorly that they are all in fact there. When you're that confident in something, especially with people on these forums, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS... Otherwise people will just see a loud mouth shooting off redundant claims they've heard for decades without a shred of evidence nor being willing to put his own backing on them. That's why you lose credibility.

Again - I hope you read and re-read that and pull out the advice that I'm trying to help give you.

Just because I don't want to put up 10k doesn't mean I don't believe what I say. Its the same reason I still return to these casino because I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that I'm NOT getting cheated. Its more of a doubt that's in the back of my mind and something I don't want to totally rule out. Then with the information I received yesterday about them using Chinese cards imported from China and it being pre shuffled just raises more red flags. I've had other pit bosses such as in Caesars tell me its pre shuffled as well.

I just need to get to the table when its first opened and put this cheating thing to rest once and for all.

I hate playing with Chinese cards. An hour after a session I want to play more.

Quote: RogerKint

Of course it is. El Cortez is center strip and ..........

That would explain the recent price increases at the coffee shop.

Quote: ZenKinG

That's funny because I've had several pit bosses tell me straight to my face they use PRE SHUFFLED cards. Not sure if every casino uses Chinese Cards but the Wynn and Encore for sure use them. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't hear it with my own two ears. Maybe the pit boss was just spouting BS?

Perhaps you aren't aware that Wynn and Encore are a pimple in the Wynn empire. His revenue and profits are Chinese based. Why wouldn't he use one company for all his cards?

Quote: billryan

Perhaps you aren't aware that Wynn and Encore are a pimple in the Wynn empire. His revenue and profits are Chinese based. Why wouldn't he use one company for all his cards?

How about we do this. Someone name multiple strip casinos and the time they open their tables and I'll go there. What time does Caesars usually open new tables during the day? 12pm? I know Paris opens tables on weekends at night at 8pm. I just want to settle this once and for all with my own eyes.

Sigh.

By now, with your little play, the casinos know who you are and that you are counting and will likely back you off as soon as you start to win. You are naive to think that with your betting spread and your system that you won't get caught and will get backed off, especially with your attitude. You've got to dump the paranoia and will never be successful with that attitude. There are a number of dealers on this site who will tell you that there are procedures and processes around cards, including at the strip casinos.

There are easy ways to check for cheating which to me means that cards are loaded with extras mid-cards and/or fewer face cards. You could stand around a casino and start counting distributions of cards. It means standing around a casino all day and just watching. Or be a ploppy and just find yourself a $25 3:2 table and start counting there. If you are smart enough to count cards, you should be able to do a running count of face cards vs 5s and 6s. At the end of the day, you should have roughly twice the number of face cards vs 5s and 6s. You can measure standard deviations to figure out what any bias is.

And if you haven't seen a strip casino open tables, you haven't been around long enough. Do yourself a favor. Go find yourself a pai gow table at the Bellagio in clear view of the blackjack tables (there's usually one open by the Piano Bar and then there's a bank of them open near-high limit). When you see dealers mulling around the blackjack tables (usually for the afternoon shift/night shift depending on day of week) pack up and watch them open a table.

Plenty of people are rooting for you. Even some winners in Vegas met up with you to give you very free advice to help you out. That was mighty big of them.

For me, I recognize that I am a smart ploppy with gambling addiction tendencies. I am not ever going to be a successful counter / edge-counter / progressive / advantage player because I know that I don't have the discipline (I react too much to the endorphins) and I have a good life where my consistent paycheck, working conditions + health coverage outweighs anything I could ever (or want to do) do in Vegas.

But I also know that consistently, people who play with advantage are very disciplined. They have to be able to grind out the advantage play and know through years of experience and hardship how to survive in Vegas. For some reason, you have been able to be disciplined in PA but not so in Vegas. I understand why now. At home, you had the security blanket of zero expense living to do whatever you wanted to do. In Vegas, you are stressed out because of all the responsibility coming with the extols of personal responsibility: paying the rent, eating, and the shi**y minutiae of every day living: eating, drinking, shopping, laundry, driving and all that crap.

I would suggest you lay low for awhile and get settled in, get the lay of the land, and figure things out. Determine if the strip casinos are cheating before you put money in. Then, play your game with your advantage. Follow the advice of other people and find other plays. You're young, you're just starting out, and I think all of us are telling you to get some perspective and be wise.

Quote: boymimbo

Sigh.

By now, with your little play, the casinos know who you are and that you are counting and will likely back you off as soon as you start to win. You are naive to think that with your betting spread and your system that you won't get caught and will get backed off, especially with your attitude. You've got to dump the paranoia and will never be successful with that attitude. There are a number of dealers on this site who will tell you that there are procedures and processes around cards, including at the strip casinos.

There are easy ways to check for cheating which to me means that cards are loaded with extras mid-cards and/or fewer face cards. You could stand around a casino and start counting distributions of cards. It means standing around a casino all day and just watching. Or be a ploppy and just find yourself a $25 3:2 table and start counting there. If you are smart enough to count cards, you should be able to do a running count of face cards vs 5s and 6s. At the end of the day, you should have roughly twice the number of face cards vs 5s and 6s. You can measure standard deviations to figure out what any bias is.

And if you haven't seen a strip casino open tables, you haven't been around long enough. Do yourself a favor. Go find yourself a pai gow table at the Bellagio in clear view of the blackjack tables (there's usually one open by the Piano Bar and then there's a bank of them open near-high limit). When you see dealers mulling around the blackjack tables (usually for the afternoon shift/night shift depending on day of week) pack up and watch them open a table.

Plenty of people are rooting for you. Even some winners in Vegas met up with you to give you very free advice to help you out. That was mighty big of them.

For me, I recognize that I am a smart ploppy with gambling addiction tendencies. I am not ever going to be a successful counter / edge-counter / progressive / advantage player because I know that I don't have the discipline (I react too much to the endorphins) and I have a good life where my consistent paycheck, working conditions + health coverage outweighs anything I could ever (or want to do) do in Vegas.

But I also know that consistently, people who play with advantage are very disciplined. They have to be able to grind out the advantage play and know through years of experience and hardship how to survive in Vegas. For some reason, you have been able to be disciplined in PA but not so in Vegas. I understand why now. At home, you had the security blanket of zero expense living to do whatever you wanted to do. In Vegas, you are stressed out because of all the responsibility coming with the extols of personal responsibility: paying the rent, eating, and the shi**y minutiae of every day living: eating, drinking, shopping, laundry, driving and all that crap.

I would suggest you lay low for awhile and get settled in, get the lay of the land, and figure things out. Determine if the strip casinos are cheating before you put money in. Then, play your game with your advantage. Follow the advice of other people and find other plays. You're young, you're just starting out, and I think all of us are telling you to get some perspective and be wise.

Well I think you did hit the nail on the head regarding the difference of PA and Vegas. I have been a bit more stressed out now having to pay rent, shop, laundry, etc. That's why I didn't want to have a horrible start so I can get settled in much better. I hope this is a good lesson in disguise and hope it strengthens me in the long run.

Yup, just called caesars. Spoke to a pit boss on the phone. The cards come pre shuffled and they dont spread them out and just throw them in the machine. Just like i have told everyone on here. Maybe off strip is a different story where the cards come in order(MaxPen and RS), but like i said every pit boss ive spoken too on the STRIP, they all say it comes pre shuffled. PA was the same shit, pre shuffled and dont show it face up as well and people said i was wrong and that they do. Looks like the people giving me information are the ones who dont even play. Now i dont know if people are just trolling me or what or maybe things have changed drastically in the last 1-2 years, but im willing to bet every casino on the strip, the cards come pre-shuffled. Also remember what I said, the commission is not even checking these cards. Definitelynot placing another bet now. Rigged and as sketchy as it gets. This town is bullshit. They say the mafia left town in the 60s, too bad the mafia is now our own government with no regulation whatsoever and these casinos do whatever they want. Higher casino profit, higher tax revenue for the state.

Like I said before (I think), I don't recall being at the table at a strip casino when new cards are introduced -- only off strip, as my play on the strip has been limited to spotting & calling in a BP or being the BP and getting called in by a spotter (IE: short sessions).

But you probably shouldn't even be playing on the strip.....or at least a majority of your play shouldn't be on the strip. At least for me, a majority of my BJ play has been off strip being a solo player and only team-played on strip.

EDIT: I've actually had a few solo sessions on the strip. I just don't see the value in it being worth it, once you include driving/traffic, parking, walking, etc. half your time is spent doing non-BJ stuff.

ZK:

Here's a thought.

Why not get a part time job and enroll at UNLV to pursue a Bachelor of Science in Hospitality Management with a concentration in Gaming Management?

As they say: "If you can't beat em, join em."

You seem to have the right stuff for that, but not for being an AP.

Quote: RS

Like I said before (I think), I don't recall being at the table at a strip casino when new cards are introduced -- only off strip, as my play on the strip has been limited to spotting & calling in a BP or being the BP and getting called in by a spotter (IE: short sessions).

But you probably shouldn't even be playing on the strip.....or at least a majority of your play shouldn't be on the strip. At least for me, a majority of my BJ play has been off strip being a solo player and only team-played on strip.

EDIT: I've actually had a few solo sessions on the strip. I just don't see the value in it being worth it, once you include driving/traffic, parking, walking, etc. half your time is spent doing non-BJ stuff.

Well there's still good games on the strip. Playing off the strip is too much heat in my opinion and more driving needed to get to games and not good for a short session approach; i cant just walk out of the casino and walk to another one. I also dont know how you will get any amount of hours off the strip betting 2x250. Station casinos and other downtown places are all sweat shops. When I play on the strip, I just park at a casino that still offers free parking such as Palazzo or Planet Hollywood depending on my rotation of stores for that day. After I park I just walk. Saves frustration from driving in this city with traffic and wasting gas. Works quite well. You can hit many stores just by walking and in a lot less time than driving.

Basically if I want to play Wynn encore or something on the north side of the strip I'll park at palazzo. If I wanna play more of the central/south side of the strip I'll park at Planet Hollywood and hit all the stores such as Caesars, Bally's, Cromwell(yes they just opened a bunch of 3:2 tables), Bellagio, Paris, Aria, Cosmo and . All these stores I just mentioned also have surrender. If I wanna play south side of the strip such as MGM or Mandalay Bay, NYNY, etc I'll park at Tropicana which also offers free parking. I only have one other store that's outaide the strip and that's Red Rock. I tried out Tuscany, but thats a sweat shop. Tried out SLS, but limited tables.

With all that being said, I don't know why you say I shouldn't play on the strip or that it isn't worth it. What you said about the strip and traffic etc seems well exaggerated. Every store I mentioned has a good amount of 3:2 tables and all offer surrender. No driving either with the parking strategy I thought of and no parking fees either

Quote: MrV

ZK:

Here's a thought.

Why not get a part time job and enroll at UNLV to pursue a Bachelor of Science in Hospitality Management with a concentration in Gaming Management?

As they say: "If you can't beat em, join em."

You seem to have the right stuff for that, but not for being an AP.

I already wasted 4.5 years of my life getting my bachelors in Business Management that I will never end up using. So please don't mention even more school. 95% of college degrees and college education are pure money scams. If you're not going to a top notch ivy league school and majoring in somehting specific or something in demand, you're wasting your money. A bachelors these days is also pretty much worthless. Unless you're getting your masters or higher level education, you're once again wasting your money. Nearly everyone has a bachelors these days. You need something to separate yourself.

Gold.
Pure comedy gold.

Quote: billryan

Gold.
Pure comedy gold.

I dont know what's so funny. There's nothing funny going on at all. You got casinos ordering cards from halfway across the world from some china shop, the cards come pre-shuffled, they dont spread the cards face up, gaming doesnt inspect the cards when the casino gets them nor do they inspect the cards after the day is done; and no one cares to question the integrity of the games in this town?

Off strip is a different story and others have chimed in who have had experience that the cards come in order and are actually shown to the customers. No coincidence i do well off strip either. On the strip, it seems as if there is no regulation whatsoever and these fat cat corporations run the town. Government doesnt give two shits as long as they keep getting their tax revenue. Higher casino profits, higher tax revenue. Unreal.

As someone else suggested why don't you count 5s and 6s verse 10s or aces.If thet are adding extra cards it should be easy to catch.

As has been said numerous times:

If the casino cheating was cause for your loss, then it would be damn obvious they are cheating because there'd be a hell of a lot more little cards and/or a hell of a lot fewer big cards. However, if the casino were to cheat in a way that was not super obvious, say they took a FEW big cards out, although this would still be cheating, it would not be enough to correlate big losses for you, especially for the small amount of time you've played.

Man- Doctor, it hurts when I do this.
Doctor- so stop doing that.

Quote: Hunterhill

As someone else suggested why don't you count 5s and 6s verse 10s or aces.If thet are adding extra cards it should be easy to catch.

Short term data is irrelevant. I could easily fool myself with small data samples.

Quote: RS

As has been said numerous times:

If the casino cheating was cause for your loss, then it would be damn obvious they are cheating because there'd be a hell of a lot more little cards and/or a hell of a lot fewer big cards. However, if the casino were to cheat in a way that was not super obvious, say they took a FEW big cards out, although this would still be cheating, it would not be enough to correlate big losses for you, especially for the small amount of time you've played.

Small sample size. Also im not mad about the losses in the short run per se if they were cheating cause i could have still easily won, im worried about the long term affect of wasting my time playing a -EV game

Quote: ZenKinG

Short term data is irrelevant. I could easily fool myself with small data samples.

Really so on a 6 deck game if you saw 7 ,5 of hearts or 25 fives that would be irrelevant.
Now it's your turn to say they don't add extra cards they just remove 10s or aces.

Quote: Hunterhill

Really so on a 6 deck game if you saw 7 ,5 of hearts or 25 fives that would be irrelevant.
Now it's your turn to say they don't add extra cards they just remove 10s or aces.

Well I think its more of a short shoe problem because casinos would take a huge risk of the same card eventually coming out and someone tracking it. So if it's a short shoe you can never be sure because the casino cuts off cards and shuffles again. Even if all the 10s and A's came out, you can then just tell yourself, well all of them came out I guess. And if it keeps happening where all the 10s and A's come out before the shuffle you can still be fooling yourself with short term data by thinking its definitely short of 10s and A's

Has anyone you've been playing with won or has everyone been cheated equally?

Quote: Skeptic

Has anyone you've been playing with won or has everyone been cheated equally?

Good question. Haven't paid much attention to the other players. Most of the time I'm playing heads up as well. Let's put it this way, when I get clobbered, I remember vaguely, but I believe everyone else got clobbered, because its been backdoor blackjacks and dealer never busting with multi card 19s , 20s, and 21s.

It is what it is. That's the game. Short run is whatever. I just want to know the deal what's actually going on, so I can just play relaxed and let the math work itself out. I'm very skeptical of this industry especially after all the card counting movies and documentaries that have come out.

So you don't know because you go on tilt and don't pay attention. But you're positive the casino is cheating you.

Got it.

Why do these casinos back off anyone if they're cheating?

ZK, my point is simply this: you can be a flea, or a casino mogul.

The choice is yours.

Quote: Skeptic

So you don't know because you go on tilt and don't pay attention. But you're positive the casino is cheating you.

Got it.

Why do these casinos back off anyone if they're cheating?

Do you know anyone personally that's been backed off of Caesars, Harrahs, or MGM for strictly counting? And do you know anyone who's up overall at these properties?

What if they back you off so you don't get enough hands in to know they're cheating you? That's a possibility as well

Quote: ZenKinG

Short term data is irrelevant. I could easily fool myself with small data samples.

You sure could, you could even fool yourself into thinking the casinos are using gaffed decks.

Quote: Mission146

You sure could, you could even fool yourself into thinking the casinos are using gaffed decks.

Have you ever proven that 'strip' casinos dont use gaffed decks? And that goes for everyone else on here. You guys sure are quick to defend something you likely never verified for yourselves. These decks come pre shuffled and cards are not being shown to its customers. Gaming even told me they don't inspect it. I don't care what casinos say when they say that it's a fair game and they're not out to get you. Has anyone verified it with their own eyes? No? OK then. Back on topic.

Until someone on this forum can post here that they saw a strip casino show you the cards in order and which casino does it or how I can get the casino to show me every card in the case of it being pre shuffled, I'll quit the cheating nonsense talk, but up to this point, the only ones who said the cards come in order were for off strip casinos.

You guys must think I actually want to keep posting about this. Its gotten to the point where I don't even play anymore because I can't get verifiable evidence its a fair game. Gaming is useless, pit bosses are useless. I wont place another bet in a strip casino blackjack circle until then.

Quote: ZenKinG

Have you ever proven that strip casinos dont use gaffed decks? And that goes for everyone else on here. You guys sure are quick to defend something you likely never verified for yourselves. These decks come pre shuffled and cards are not being shown to its customers. Gaming even told me they don't inspect it. I don't care what casinos say when they say that it's a fair game and they're not out to get you. Has anyone verified it with their own eyes? No? OK then. Back on topic.

I understand math enough to know that due to the house edge they don't have to cheat. I understand law enough to know how quickly they'd be shut down if they were. I understand logic enough to know that the person making the extraordinary claim is the one obligated to provide the evidence.

P.S. I have a pet unicorn. Prove that I don't.

Quote: Skeptic

I understand math enough to know that due to the house edge they don't have to cheat. I understand law enough to know how quickly they'd be shut down if they were. I understand logic enough to know that the person making the extraordinary claim is the one obligated to provide the evidence.

P.S. I have a pet unicorn. Prove that I don't.

Your argument is not apples to apples. Casinos are a business. We are their customers. It is their duty to show the integrity of a game before we play it.

Also how can they be shut down, if the commission doesn't inspect the cards at all? This is straight from the commission guys mouth over the phone. Maybe I was talking to an idiot there or a lower level employee who was just spouting nonsense by just guessing on information, but I heard it with my own ears that they DONT inspect the casinos cards that they buy. The only checking they do is a supposed 'random periodic' check. Have you ever seen a gaming agent inside a casino doing a 'random periodic' check? LOL. Just when you thought they kicked the mafia out of town. The new mafia is our own government on the state and federal level

If you're convinced they're cheating you then why the Hell are you still there playing?

Quote: Skeptic

If you're convinced they're cheating you then why the Hell are you still there playing?

They have the best games and you can't play the same places forever or youll be made. There's only so many games in this town that are playable and that take action. I also tend to still give them the benefit of the doubt since I never actually proved that they are in fact cheating so maybe I've over thinking it and so I decide to return, but its starting to reach a point where I'm not placing another bet until I see the cards.

You guys can call me crazy, but you guys never saw the cards either and are defending a blind point of view. If anything all of you should at least understand where I'm coming from.

Quote: Skeptic

If you're convinced they're cheating you then why the Hell are you still there playing?

because there are only 349 places to play BJ and it is great cover to play at the cheating places.

Quote: ZenKinG

Have you ever proven that 'strip' casinos dont use gaffed decks? And that goes for everyone else on here. You guys sure are quick to defend something you likely never verified for yourselves. These decks come pre shuffled and cards are not being shown to its customers. Gaming even told me they don't inspect it. I don't care what casinos say when they say that it's a fair game and they're not out to get you. Has anyone verified it with their own eyes? No? OK then. Back on topic.

Until someone on this forum can post here that they saw a strip casino show you the cards in order and which casino does it or how I can get the casino to show me every card in the case of it being pre shuffled, I'll quit the cheating nonsense talk, but up to this point, the only ones who said the cards come in order were for off strip casinos.

You guys must think I actually want to keep posting about this. Its gotten to the point where I don't even play anymore because I can't get verifiable evidence its a fair game. Gaming is useless, pit bosses are useless. I wont place another bet in a strip casino blackjack circle until then.

Next time you get gas you should put the gas into a gas can first and make sure you are getting a gallon. Of course the weights and measures people are in on it too since they are a regulatory committee. Even if you do get a gallon you better stop pumping gas at about gallon 4.5 because their computers know you will check the first one but not all of them so they short pour you on the gallons 4 through 12.

ETA: before you use the gas can you better make sure it is actually a gallon as well because the gas can manufacturers are in on the cheating. They actually are giving you a .94 gas can so when you get .94 gas and the meter reads 1 gallon it looks like you got what you paid for.

Quote: ZenKinG

Do you know anyone personally that's been backed off of Caesars, Harrahs, or MGM for strictly counting? And do you know anyone who's up overall at these properties?

Yes....Me.

Quote: ZenKinG

Do you know anyone personally that's been backed off of Caesars, Harrahs, or MGM for strictly counting? And do you know anyone who's up overall at these properties?

What if they back you off so you don't get enough hands in to know they're cheating you? That's a possibility as well

I know several people who have gotten backed off & 86'd from Caesars Palace (in Las Vegas) for strictly card counting (we were doing spotter + BP). I don't remember of any back offs happening at an MGM property, although we typically played at CET properties due to their location and relative lack of heat.

Quote: ZenKinG

Have you ever seen a gaming agent inside a casino doing a 'random periodic' check?l

Yes I have, many times.

I'm still confused.

Let's say that you are right and that each deck from China comes with 51 cards and that each deck is missing a certain face card. Over a six deck shoe, then you will have 48 (6 x 4 x 2) 5/6s and (15 x 6) 90 face cards.

So you have a shoe with a 50% penetration so you are seeing 156 cards each time. You count the number of facecards divided by the total number of cards dealt and you do a probability variance across the entire day for the table.

At 50 hands per hour on a table with 3 players you are likely looking at 200 hands or about 500 cards per hour or three shoes. Over three hours you will pick up around 1500 cards. You should see 4/13 or 461 face cards. You can take your actual statistics and plug it in your statistics calculator to figure out whether you are being cheated or not. If you are thinking a face card is missing out of each deck then you should start to see 433 face cards out of 1500 cards and you can start taking samples at each casino.

So, the odds of seeing 433 or fewer face cards in a true deal (all cards present) with a sample size of 1,500 is 10.84%.
Conversely, the odds of seeing 461 or more face cards in a miffed deck (1 face card missing from each deck) with a sample size of 1,500 cards is 5.1%.

So, you can get up to a 2 sigma degree of confidence over three hours. And over six hours a 3+ sigma (98.8%) degree of confidence that you are being cheated.

All you have to do is stand there and watch and use your god-given counting skills. There's nothing stopping you from sitting at a BlackJack table and playing greens all day like a regular ploppy.

Just because decks are coming from China doesn't mean that they are missing cards or have extra cards in them. But it's easy for you to watch and prove it for yourself.