AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 113
  • Posts: 12050
April 19th, 2017 at 5:44:08 AM permalink
Quote: InTimeForSpace1

Who wants points or mercy? It just seems that the people who don't gamble at casinos know so much more about it. Nobody has to figure anyone out to arrive at this.

Sorry, Axel, a bunch of lonely (older male) people are still lonely. They live their lonely lives out on internet forums.

I know someone on this very forum (not me)that will probably wear a dress and high hills for you, or whomever you are talking about. You/they just have to think positive.

I don't know what you mean when you say "It just seems that the people who don't gamble at casinos know so much more about it." Was that sarcasm directed at Boob? I can't tell if what you said was actually all just sarcasm?

Either way, the casinos will, in fact, target AP's who are losing at times. Ya, its much more likely they will go after you when you start winning.

Sometimes people have the appearance of winning (lots of big jackpots or lots of chips) but they don't take the time to investigate and see how much the guy is actually in for.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
InTimeForSpace1
InTimeForSpace1
Joined: Apr 1, 2017
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 63
April 19th, 2017 at 7:22:01 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Sometimes people have the appearance of winning (lots of big jackpots or lots of chips) but they don't take the time to investigate and see how much the guy is actually in for.

If a casino doesn't know "how much the guy is in for," then they don't know him at all. You guys ridicule the baccarat players who write stuff down. Where do the casinos write down their so-called long psychological "evaluations", performed by whomever, on every generic AxelWolf through the door? Furthermore, I doubt that any gambling make-up or profile would be normal in any mainstream sense of the word. Yeah, sure, I'm writing in some foreign language, and using a translator. At least I'm not a robot. WTF are you guys eating and drinking? QFit?
Believers are the ones who keep at it long after they've been told it can't be done. On the other hand, the real experts shouldn't care about the crackpots. But, if the wrong answer begs the question, then the wrong question begs the answer.
DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
Joined: May 4, 2016
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 191
April 19th, 2017 at 12:44:41 PM permalink
Quote: InTimeForSpace1

Who wants points or mercy? It just seems that the people who don't gamble at casinos know so much more about it. Nobody has to figure anyone out to arrive at this.

Sorry, Axel, a bunch of lonely (older male) people are still lonely. They live their lonely lives out on internet forums.



I don't know about other games. But I know for 100% fact that people who play Blackjack have managed to get away with play by changing their appearance and behavior. (and no I am not talking about elaborate disguises to fool facial recognition or something as extensive as that) As long as casinos are run and managed by humans and not robots its going to be a factor.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 113
  • Posts: 12050
April 19th, 2017 at 1:40:23 PM permalink
Quote: InTimeForSpace1

If a casino doesn't know "how much the guy is in for," then they don't know him at all. You guys ridicule the baccarat players who write stuff down. Where do the casinos write down their so-called long psychological "evaluations", performed by whomever, on every generic AxelWolf through the door? Furthermore, I doubt that any gambling make-up or profile would be normal in any mainstream sense of the word. Yeah, sure, I'm writing in some foreign language, and using a translator. At least I'm not a robot. WTF are you guys eating and drinking? QFit?

I have never ridiculed a Baccarat player for writing stuff down, only for thinking it actually helps him overcome the HA.

I didn't say they can't find out or never look into how much a player is up or down. In fact, they oftentimes look into that and then use that information to 86 players, or even roll out the red carpet. I was just saying, being up or down is not the only factor. Simply playing something that AP's might play can get you tossed, win lose or draw.

They don't need to know how much a card counter is in for to know they don't want his action.
It's the same concept on all other games, if the casino knows a guy is playing during a +EV situation they might react based solely on the fact they appear to be hitting too many jackpots.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
InTimeForSpace1
InTimeForSpace1
Joined: Apr 1, 2017
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 63
April 19th, 2017 at 2:07:08 PM permalink
Quote: DiscreteMaths2

But I know for 100% fact that people who play Blackjack have managed to get away with play by changing their appearance and behavior.

Females have more hair, etc, to work with in this department. But it doesn't change the argument that casinos look at the money first , middle and last. It probably makes great linear programming sense to just throw out the few who win a lot or consistently over a short period of time. If you do a volume business, who cares if you are completely wrong? But, if they are beating you, then you have saved yourself some "change" by the end of the month. But the players are convinced, in any event, that they are all "irrational, whining casino employees" because of them.
Believers are the ones who keep at it long after they've been told it can't be done. On the other hand, the real experts shouldn't care about the crackpots. But, if the wrong answer begs the question, then the wrong question begs the answer.
mamat
mamat
Joined: Jul 13, 2015
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 273
April 20th, 2017 at 3:10:54 AM permalink
Casinos look at (day, current visit, last 30 days, last 90 days, last year, lifetime, etc...)
1) Drop - cash used (both for tables and slots)
2) Theo - ADT (Average Daily Theo)
3) Win - ADW (Average Daily Win), PADW (Peak Average Daily Win) - actual win/loss
4) Win/Loss
5) Coin-in, Points
6) Player reinvestment - total amount of FP, rooms, food, gifts, benefits
7) Games played - tables, slots
8) Address - very local, local, in-state, out-of-state
9) Google, Social Media, possibly detective work
10) etc....

Formulas vary a LOT between casinos. Some casinos are simple & easy-to-understand. Others are pretty complicated.
Marketing and tables/slots may have different formulas.

Some APs spend time trying to reverse-engineer this process, to get "over-comped", to stay "under the radar", etc...
The formulas in some cases have WEIRD effects compared to old-school seat-of-the-pants judgement.

------
You might expect a casino to prefer players with an overall loss,
but (in some situations) many casinos prefer players who've walked away with some of their money.

e.g. I took a 4-6 month break from casinos. After a 3 month decline in casino offers, some casinos where I won money raised their offers to get me back. You would think that the casinos where I lost the most would try the hardest to keep my business. Nope.

There are many cases (as an entrepreneur & business owner) where I'm just scratching my head, going "what are they thinking?"
Of course, not every business owner has the luxury of being in a business with 40-45% gross profit margins! It allows you lots of leeway to make mistakes.
dizapird
dizapird
Joined: Apr 20, 2017
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 5
April 20th, 2017 at 3:50:47 AM permalink
YOu might just wanna hear about new and uptodate gambling website. It attracts players all over the world and you should defenitely have a loot at it. they have streaming channel on twitch. Name of channel is x_bet_slots
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 866
April 20th, 2017 at 5:08:38 AM permalink
Quote: InTimeForSpace1

Look, casinos look at what you win or lose, nothing else.



In Las Vegas it's not that common for them to investigate these too heavily, especially at table games. There are something like 100 casinos, most of which range in value from $100 million to over $1 billion. If a player is beating them for an average of $100 every other week, they don't care enough to look into it. And even if they did, most of the time the player who has an advantage still loses more then half the time, making it hard to add up all their wins and losses.
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
  • Threads: 25
  • Posts: 239
April 20th, 2017 at 6:56:12 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

In Las Vegas it's not that common for them to investigate these too heavily, especially at table games. If a player is beating them for an average of $100 every other week, they don't care enough to look into it.



Agreed. I once was acquainted with someone in NYC who worked TV production for live sports broadcasts. (Since DI doesn't exist, I'll just say...) He was VERY lucky at craps, and several times a month he would go to AC for the day. He would play 8-10 casinos, attempting to win $500 each (often successful), and then leave. He commented that the casinos stopped giving him comps. "A player won $500 today? So what?" As far as the casinos were concerned, it was no big deal.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 113
  • Posts: 12050
Thanks for this post from:
mamat
April 20th, 2017 at 7:50:25 AM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

Agreed. I once was acquainted with someone in NYC who worked TV production for live sports broadcasts. (Since DI doesn't exist, I'll just say...) He was VERY lucky at craps, and several times a month he would go to AC for the day. He would play 8-10 casinos, attempting to win $500 each (often successful), and then leave. He commented that the casinos stopped giving him comps. "A player won $500 today? So what?" As far as the casinos were concerned, it was no big deal.

It's amazing because every DI, system player, positive energy player, voodoo guy, fuzzy math guys, all the guys on the roulette and baccarat forums are making their $100 to $1k per day, and that's not including the guys claiming much higher profits. The casinos don't seem to be interested them guys at all. Yet, they will sweat and toss out guys with a small mathematical advantage making a few bucks an hour on something as silly as playing VP on a crappy point multiplier day.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

  • Jump to: