Can you train hole-carding like you can counting?
In casino practice is a key component. Practicing to see the hole card is possible and does improve results.
Happy Variance!
Yes, I am the Stealth from other Forums.
Advantage player, team manager, coach and website manager.
Experienced with team play, blackjack, hole carding and video poker(and some variants).
Retired from financial background, play golf for fun and live in Vegas.
Quote: GreasyjohnI have never seen a hold-carding dealer in 30 years of playing blackjack. And I've been watching! I've witnessed about 5 times when the dealer has inadvertently exposed the hole card though. Just the other day a dealer might have exposed the hole card by starting to turn it over before the players had acted, but then caught himself. Only the guy at third base might have seen it. I didn't ask him if he did. I guess I could have just asked him jokingly, "What was it?" But I didn't. Asking a question like that draws attention.
The only dealer I REALLY saw the cards was one very sloppy dealer just after I moved to Vegas, when I was pursuing HCing. He was so sloppy, I started following him around. Knew his schedule. It was about that time, I decided, I didn't like winning that way and stopped 'pursuing' HCing. If I get a glimpse during natural play....so be it.
At the risk of being 'yelled at', a couple thoughts, GreasyJohn.
Vision is better not looking directly at what you want to see.
You are not really 'seeing' numbers. You are seeing characteristics of different value cards. Examine the top portion of the different value cards to see what you are looking for. Think about Royals in real life. They are isolated....almost like in a box. :/ Aces have a single pip in the middle of the card, meaning a different visual across the top than other cards.
I'll stop here...I can feel the heat coming. :/
It is a bit warm in here =).Quote: kewlj...I'll stop here...I can feel the heat coming. :/
Quote: RomesIt is a bit warm in here =).
Sweltering!
I have been having a really bad week on various message boards. Seems, I am not thought of too highly at the moment. No doubt this thread will not help my cause. :/
Quote: kewlj...You are not really 'seeing' numbers. You are seeing characteristics of different value cards. Examine the top portion of the different value cards to see what you are looking for. Think about Royals in real life. They are isolated....almost like in a box. :/ Aces have a single pip in the middle of the card, meaning a different visual across the top than other cards...
I've played many bj dealers where the "upside down 7" wasn't even a problem.
Quote: kewljOh boy. I edited to be slightly more vague....probably not enough though.
I have been having a really bad week on various message boards. Seems, I am not thought of too highly at the moment. No doubt this thread will not help my cause. :/
Don't "sweat" it. Pun intended :-)
Quote: kewljThe only dealer I REALLY saw the cards was one very sloppy dealer just after I moved to Vegas, when I was pursuing HCing. He was so sloppy, I started following him around. Knew his schedule. It was about that time, I decided, I didn't like winning that way and stopped 'pursuing' HCing. If I get a glimpse during natural play....so be it.
At the risk of being 'yelled at', a couple thoughts, GreasyJohn.
Vision is better not looking idirectly at what you want to see.
You are not really 'seeing' numbers. You are seeing characteristics of different value cards. Examine the top portion of the different value cards to see what you are looking for. Think about Royals in real life. They are isolated....almost like in a box. :/ Aces have a single pip in the middle of the card, meaning a different visual across the top than other cards.
I'll stop here...I can feel the heat coming. :/
What do you mean about risking being yelled at? Giving too much info away?
Your post reminds me of playing SD at Circus Circus about 17 years ago. There was a dealer there that offered the cut completely exposing the bottom card. If I was offered the cut I could try to steer aces and 10s to me and small cards to the dealer.
Quote: StealthThink carnival games and the percentage will go up.
Yup....
As far as the availability of blackjack games to hole-card, for many it's not so much finding these opportunities as it is creating these opportunities.
And the pit critters couldn't understand why they were always losing money. So they changed the rules- no DAS, then no soft doubling, etc.
Eventually someone figured it out and they cleaned things up, but not entirely.
Quote: teliotMany years ago I wrote a Java applet that flashed various parts of cards at various speeds and angles for hole-carding practice. I called it "Flasher." It was available at the old cardcounter.com in its day.
As far as the availability of blackjack games to hole-card, for many it's not so much finding these opportunities as it is creating these opportunities.
Any chance that program still exists? Would love to take a look.
Quote: DonutsAny chance that program still exists? Would love to take a look.
There's no substitute for real life scouting and testing.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThere's no substitute for real life scouting and testing.
I know, but there is supplementation.
Heh. I went back and looked at the code. I needed to install jdk1.8, recompile it and run it using appletviewer under the command prompt, but it still works. It's been at least 13 years since I wrote it. It no longer works in a browser. Fancy that.Quote: DonutsAny chance that program still exists? Would love to take a look.
Regrets, I can't share it. I'm not on your side here. But, what it does is to cover random parts of the cards, so you can never be sure where to look for a piece of the card. Then, it flashes 100 different cards, each for a very short period of time, per your speed choice on a pull down menu. I'm sure a halfway decent programmer could write a much better program than this in about a day.
Here's are screen shots::
What's your point? Card counters practice counting at home on Norm's software, even though there is no substitute for real life counting. Why can't hole-carders practice at home with "flasher" software?Quote: IbeatyouracesThere's no substitute for real life scouting and testing.
Quote: teliotMany years ago I wrote a Java applet that flashed various parts of cards at various speeds and angles for hole-carding practice. I called it "Flasher." It was available at the old cardcounter.com in its day.
I'd like to talk to you about the specifics. Maybe we could get JB to do something like that on WoO but I could use more guidance on the details.
I added to my post -- see above.Quote: WizardI'd like to talk to you about the specifics. Maybe we could get JB to do something like that on WoO but I could use more guidance on the details.
Quote: teliotHeh. I went back and looked at the code. I needed to install jdk1.8, recompile it and run it using appletviewer under the command prompt, but it still works. It's been at least 13 years since I wrote it. It no longer works in a browser. Fancy that.
Regrets, I can't share it. I'm not on your side here. But, what it does is to cover random parts of the cards, so you can never be sure where to look for a piece of the card. Then, it flashes 100 different cards, each for a very short period of time, per your speed choice on a pull down menu. I'm sure a halfway decent programmer could write a much better program than this in about a day.
Here's are screen shots::
Very cool thanks. Probably wouldn't be too hard to code this.
Quote: teliotWhat's your point? Card counters practice counting at home on Norm's software, even though there is no substitute for real life counting. Why can't hole-carders practice at home with "flasher" software?
Quit trolling me! Get a new hobby!
Thanks. You always give such good advice.Quote: IbeatyouracesQuit trolling me! Get a new hobby!
Quote: teliotThanks. You always give such good advice.
I'd suggest staying out of my business.
You have scared me with your implicit threat, so I have decided to block this thread so as to not be in your business here. Bye.Quote: IbeatyouracesI'd suggest staying out of my business.
Quote: GreasyjohnI have never seen a hold-carding dealer in 30 years of playing blackjack.
I have, in my significantly fewer years.
IMO, it's easier to find a pitch game dealer that lofts the cards enough so you can see everything except the hole card... and this can give you somewhat better information when it's your turn to act. Not quite as good as the hole card.
I don't usually find a dealer who is flashing their hole card every round. Around here, unintentionally sloppy dealers usually only let you glimpse the hole card every fourth or fifth round. Still helpful.
