h1374530
h1374530
Joined: Oct 20, 2015
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October 20th, 2015 at 5:01:33 PM permalink
Hello,

I couldn't find anything related to the search options so I decided to make another thread.
I was trying to find anything regarding the european blackjack and its exceptions.
I've read a lot of miscelanous and their appendix, especially the exceptions for example :
16 vs 7 or more > the site says to stand after 3 cards, but I was wondering if the rules still apply to the european blackjack ? (dealer stands on soft 17, and there is no surrenders)

I don't do a lot of math, but I keep getting asked why I'd hit or stand whenever I'd get hard 16 and I couldn't really explain, and I didn't want to explain myself because I'm getting tired of saying the same s#%% since like 99% of those blackjack players at my casino doesn't follow the rules stated on wizards of odds.

I've been using the European's blackjack chart with 6 decks and stand on soft 17 (double allowed after split except aces where you can just split. Blackjack pays 3 to 2, Insurance pays 2 to 1). I"ve been following the chart regularly and I can play it perfectly, but I wanted to know more like if there were more exceptions. I'm not a counting card player yet, but maybe I will in the future (May come in handy, but right now my local casino has this continuous automatic shuffle cards so...)

Thanks in advance.

Got a response in another thread thanks to canyonero :

Quote:

Hi and welcome to the forums.

You should only stand with a 16 vs 10 with three or more cards. You hit everything else.



Thank you very much. Is there any other exceptions like that soft 18 vs A with 4 or more cards ? Does it still apply to European Blackjack ? I fear that i'm losing a lot of edge when I'm trying to stick to the european chart only.
ChesterDog
ChesterDog 
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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October 20th, 2015 at 6:58:53 PM permalink
The European no-hole-card rule only affects plays against the dealer's ten or ace and then only for doubles and splits (because the player can lose more than the original bet vs a dealer's blackjack with that rule.) Otherwise, the strategies with the European no-hole-card rule and the game we play in the US are identical. So, you can use that 16 vs 10 with three or more cards standing strategy with both games.

There is one more strategy variation that you might like. The hi-lo counting index for standing on 12 vs 4 is 0, so in your continuous-shuffle-machine game you might want to hit 12 vs 4 if you see a lot more tens than 2's, 3's, 4's, 5's, and 6's in that round. (Actually, if in a round you see a ratio of 10's to other cards of at least 1/2 then feel free to hit 12 vs 4 in that round.)
Takeshi88
Takeshi88
Joined: Mar 11, 2017
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March 11th, 2017 at 2:19:20 AM permalink
It seems odd to me to stand 16 vs 10 with 3 card or more in European no-hole-card or Macau rules. In the case of North American rule, with 3 cards you are sure that the dealer do not have a blackjack (he would have peeked before you hit). But it is different in European no-hole-card or macau rules because the dealer could get a blackjack if he hits an Ace (it means the dealer has another winning card to be considered).

I havent think of this mathematically but it seems to make sense to me because of the different in rule.

Maybe the wizard can advise cause I havent seen his calculation for the exception to the basic strategy in North American rule.
Takeshi88
Takeshi88
Joined: Mar 11, 2017
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March 11th, 2017 at 2:35:10 AM permalink
Just to add on.

I have ran simulations on ENHC/Macau rules with both strategies. The simulations without the exception is better.
Kellynbnf
Kellynbnf
Joined: May 5, 2010
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March 11th, 2017 at 7:50:01 AM permalink
Quote: Takeshi88

It seems odd to me to stand 16 vs 10 with 3 card or more in European no-hole-card or Macau rules. In the case of North American rule, with 3 cards you are sure that the dealer do not have a blackjack (he would have peeked before you hit). But it is different in European no-hole-card or macau rules because the dealer could get a blackjack if he hits an Ace (it means the dealer has another winning card to be considered).

I havent think of this mathematically but it seems to make sense to me because of the different in rule.

Maybe the wizard can advise cause I havent seen his calculation for the exception to the basic strategy in North American rule.



It's because if the dealer gets a blackjack whether you hit or stood is irrelevant - you lose your bet regardless. (Now if there were a doubling or splitting decision that would be a factor, since under ENHC you could lose both bets while under American rules the hand would end before you'd make such a decision if the dealer has a BJ.)
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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March 12th, 2017 at 3:58:52 PM permalink
The simple thing to remember the change only applies to splitting and doubling when the dealer might subsequently make Blackjack. In the US you already know the Dealer doesn't have Blackjack as they've peeked.

In the UK you risk losing two bets if the Dealer then gets BlackJack, so doubling 11 vs 10 isn't worth the risk. Thus the only extra money you ever put down vs A or 10 is splitting Aces vs 10.
Takeshi88
Takeshi88
Joined: Mar 11, 2017
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March 13th, 2017 at 4:56:40 AM permalink
Quote: Kellynbnf

It's because if the dealer gets a blackjack whether you hit or stood is irrelevant - you lose your bet regardless. (Now if there were a doubling or splitting decision that would be a factor, since under ENHC you could lose both bets while under American rules the hand would end before you'd make such a decision if the dealer has a BJ.)



Ok. I forgot that the fact that the dealer still can get an A in both cases. I re-ran simulations with 16 v 10. EV was pretty close at ~0.570/~0.572 for stand/hit.

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