First Time 86ed, then still offered Comps?

After about 400 hours of recreational counting at $5 to $10 dollar tables (1 - 12 spread) with no heat what so ever, I was 86ed from my first casino a few weeks ago. I wasn't even really trying to camouflage at this point, I suspect a pit boss saw me go from $50 to $5 bet at the beginning of a new shoe, or perhaps lower my bet after a blackjack? Anyway, sitting at the table, some came over with security, told me to leave the property and never come back. When I asked whey, they just said leave and never come back. I was allowed to keep my (comped) hotel room, but just banned from the casino area. I actually found the whole episode a bit entertaining (and somewhat humorous). I went to a casino 5 mins away and continued my sessions there...

Interestingly enough, a week or 2 later I received a mailer for 2 more free nights at this property. I was able to call in an book these free nights with no problem? My plan is to just stay at this hotel (no casinos in the city where I live) and then go to nearby casinos in the area. Any issues with this? I figure at worst case, they just tell me to leave again? Can they take any legal action? I do not see how...

The lead time on mailers are 1-2 months before you receive the actual mail, so no surprise that you got a mailer. Are the hotel and casino the same entity? What are the States laws regarding evicting hotel guest? I think you need a more active imagination if you think that "worst" case is only being told to leave:)

There's a difference between "they told me to leave, could'a said other stuff, but it was hard to hear in a noisy casino....but I didn't sign or agree to anything" and "they told me to never come back".

Stay away.

Not sure from your descripition if you were formally "trespassed," but why risk getting arrested?

They don't want your action and will prosecute you if they can if you return.

When you dance with the devil he sometimes jabs you with a pitchfork.

Is this in Vegas?

Could be a criminal trespass warning. Criminal trespass warning is obvious though. If you come back, there is a possibility of being arrested for criminal trespass.

The casino was in Western Louisiana. After doing a quick google search on casino trespassing, it is clearly something I don't want to mess with. I canceled the reservation, not worth it when I can book a room near other casinos for $80. Still puzzling that when I called to book the room originally that they still comped the room for me with my players card number? Anyways, not worth the risk for such a small reward...
I appreciate the input, cheers...

Not only do you have the promotions lead time issue already discussed, but there is often a disconnect between the management / security and the promotions department.

As a result, you may receive offers for quite a long time.

I would advise you to not use them.

Legally, they are inviting you back....but obviously not worth the cost of a court case, I wouldn't go.

If I must put on my enabling hat....if you just use the hotel usually surveillance isn't watching anything but some table games, the cage, and just following the money very closely....you should be fine....but again not worth it. How expensive are hotel rooms in dumpy Shreveport anyways? Lake Charles is expensive though, and coushatta is an Indian property so as cart an says, "whatever, I do what I want"

In NJ the CRIME of DEFIANT TRESSPASS is committed when you disregard a verbal OR posted warning to keep off a property... Not sure how it is where u played

What about when they change their mind and invite you back by sending you an invitation...

I'm not going to advise one way or another, just give my honest opinion of the situation...

First, you were backed off playing a $5 table and a 1-12 spread... LOL @ casino.

Next, it sounds (to me) like they just kicked you out. Were you playing rated? If so, then they have your info and could have filled out a trespass form, BUT it sounds like you didn't sign anything, etc, correct?

The reason it sounds like they just kicked you out is they didn't kick you out of your hotel room. When they hard bar people they love taking your room(s) away too. Just on an outside perspective it sounds like a PB noticed something like you said, and was mildly irritated enough to just get you off the tables. It doesn't sound like he, or security, went through the formal act of trespassing you. Did they read you the trespass act? It didn't sound like they did... just a "get outa here" kind of attitude.

Given they let you stay in your hotel, that would also be grounds for doing what you proposed... just stay there, but don't go to the gaming floor. Not only did they invite you back (yes I get that their mail can be behind), they made it clear the last time that you COULD in fact visit/stay in the hotel even after asking you to leave the gaming area. Another kicker here is you read them your card number for the comp. The mailing might be backed up, but if your card is flagged, it should be flagged. I would imagine they would see that on their screens when booking the room and deny you at that point. This again leads me to believe a slightly annoyed PB just wanted you out of there for the night and they didn't even do anything formally to your card. After all, you're a $5 player costing them a hair under $8/hour (given a .36% HE game).

Lastly, I want to again re-iterate this is just my opinion and outside view from what I've read thus far... If you really wanted to test the situation, just have your wife (or a girl that says she's your wife) go play at the $5 table and use your card. If they give her any hassle she can just say you're her husband and you guys use the same card. Either way, you should know within minutes of her getting swiped in if your card has an issue or not. This would let you know where you stand while protecting you =).

I agree with Romes on everything except the last part about sending in your wife or girlfriend. I had a situation that was similar where I sent in a friend with clearly not her players card and when security came she freaked. Even though nothing came of it, her being surrounded led to a huge argument where she "accused me of sending her into the line of fire" (her words). Not everyone understands the politics of casinos and how much authority security really has. Just be ware before you send your wife in while you remain "protected". You might have more to fear from the wrath of your wife afterwards.

First let me say that just because you got a mailer doesn't mean that they changed their minds about the warning. Security is a totally different department than marketing and I doubt they communicate much.

My advice is that if you value the room offers, then go ahead and discretely take them, but heed the warning to stay off the casino floor. Once they see you're taking rooms and not playing the offers will dry up soon anyway.

Even if the room is comped, everywhere I've stayed has required a credit card posted on the room, as well as an ID where they can match you up on your player info (address, DL#, birthdate, whatever). So IMO they have you coming and going, because if they audit the checkout they can whack your card for the full rack rate even after you've left. I don't think I'd risk sliding by; either confirm they've withdrawn the 86 or stay away.

I think you are spot on Romes. They just pulled me away from the table, told me I need to leave immediately and never come back. They said I could stay in my hotel, and wouldn't answer me as to why they were kicking me out. They never asked me to sign anything, or even verbally confirm any type of trespass agreement. They had a small African girl escort me out the front door (and flirted with me the whole time), who mentioned she didn't know what I did but if I called then they would probably let me back in.

I do recall in hindsight catching eyes with the PB, probably after reducing my bet after a BJ when a bunch of face cards were dealt. Again, didn't think they would give a @*&# about a $5 low roller like myself.

When I called in to book the hotel on my players card, the person booking me did hesitate for a few seconds, but then did confirm he comped the room. Confirmation was emailed, but his hesitation did give me the slightest amount of concern.

I think i would probably be OK just staying in the hotel and not entering the casino, but really not worth risking any type of legal trouble. I don't think I would have anything happen that a good lawyer wouldn't fix, but why even risk the trouble. Possible arrest and mark on my clean record not worth an $80 dollar hotel room. Appreciate all the input, cheers...

Quote: Wizard

First let me say that just because you got a mailer doesn't mean that they changed their minds about the warning. Security is a totally different department than marketing and I doubt they communicate much.

There is most definitely a 'disconnect' of failure to communicate among departments at SOME locations, most notably a disconnect between marketing and security/surveillance.

Bob Nersesian has addressed this issues a couple times, stating something to the effect that 'legally' a mail offer, especially a mail offer involving any kind of play, like free slot play, match plays or free bet coupons, is in fact an invitation to the property and will negate any kind of prior barring or trespass deal, as they invited you back.

BUT, because of this communication disconnect, you very well may have spend quite a bit of money in legal fees getting to the point that a judge would make that ruling and even then, the casino would just turn around and re-ban you and make sure any and all offers stopped.

So it's one of those situations where you would win the case at considerable expense, but what have you really won?? :/ (shades of Kenny Uston).

Sorry for a bit of derail, but something came across my desk that I thought I would share with all here. The beginning of the this week a wanted poster for two individuals was emailed to me from one of our information networks. The two are wanted for suspicion of fraud and identity theft. What brought on the charges was basically fraudulent use of player club cards. There was a lot more on the poster and email which I can not go into, but if anyone here is using other peoples' player cards or getting cards under assumed names just be aware that there is some elevated risk out there right now. From what I have been able to gather this is mainly focused in the Ohio area. That is all I am comfortable with stating but if I run across an actual news article about this I will pass it along.

In regards to this thread, what the Wizard posted is very correct. Marketing does not like to share with nor listen to other departments for the most part. Maybe that is different in other casinos but the place I work at does have major communication issues within and between several departments.

Quote: waasnoday

Sorry for a bit of derail, but something came across my desk that I thought I would share with all here. The beginning of the this week a wanted poster for two individuals was emailed to me from one of our information networks. The two are wanted for suspicion of fraud and identity theft. What brought on the charges was basically fraudulent use of player club cards. There was a lot more on the poster and email which I can not go into, but if anyone here is using other peoples' player cards or getting cards under assumed names just be aware that there is some elevated risk out there right now. From what I have been able to gather this is mainly focused in the Ohio area. That is all I am comfortable with stating but if I run across an actual news article about this I will pass it along.

In regards to this thread, what the Wizard posted is very correct. Marketing does not like to share with nor listen to other departments for the most part. Maybe that is different in other casinos but the place I work at does have major communication issues within and between several departments.

That's been a "problem" for quite a while now, over a year. I know someone who was using someone else's card....gaming came out....everything got straightened away and gaming said they didn't give a hoot if he used someone else's card, as long as it's legit and has permission. This was in Ohio.

Not sure about Indian casinos though.

Quote: Excursion

The casino was in Western Louisiana. After doing a quick google search on casino trespassing, it is clearly something I don't want to mess with. I canceled the reservation, not worth it when I can book a room near other casinos for $80. Still puzzling that when I called to book the room originally that they still comped the room for me with my players card number? Anyways, not worth the risk for such a small reward...
I appreciate the input, cheers...

Sounds like you got caught at Aisle of Capree Lake Charles. Play at La Burge and Goulden Nougat instead for a while.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Even if the room is comped, everywhere I've stayed has required a credit card posted on the room, as well as an ID where they can match you up on your player info (address, DL#, birthdate, whatever). So IMO they have you coming and going, because if they audit the checkout they can whack your card for the full rack rate even after you've left. I don't think I'd risk sliding by; either confirm they've withdrawn the 86 or stay away.

I'm awfully skeptical that they can charge you a rate different than the agreed rate after you leave. They might TRY, but you would beat them in court in a heartbeat IMO if they pushed the issue. Your honor here is the contract I signed at check in showing that the room would be complimentary. The management tried to change the rate some weeks after I checked out.The idea that you should "confirm that they have withdrawn the 86" is also suspect, why point out to them that they have kicked you out before?

Quote: RS

That's been a "problem" for quite a while now, over a year. I know someone who was using someone else's card....gaming came out....everything got straightened away and gaming said they didn't give a hoot if he used someone else's card, as long as it's legit and has permission. This was in Ohio.

Not sure about Indian casinos though.

Varies from place to place. We most of the time just take the card if the names don't match and ask the player to either get a card under their name or just play without a card. In the case I mentioned in the previous post, the play occurred back in January of 2014 and is just winding through the court now. They mentioned enough in the email and on the poster to get me interested but not enough to tell me what was actually done. It looks like the prosecutor is going for identity theft, fraud, and money laundering.

Call security and or the pit and ask for clarification.

Was it a permanent ban?

Was it from BJ pit only?

Can you still gamble at the other games?

A phone call shouldn't hurt, and it might help.

Quote: waasnoday

Varies from place to place. We most of the time just take the card if the names don't match and ask the player to either get a card under their name or just play without a card. In the case I mentioned in the previous post, the play occurred back in January of 2014 and is just winding through the court now. They mentioned enough in the email and on the poster to get me interested but not enough to tell me what was actually done. It looks like the prosecutor is going for identity theft, fraud, and money laundering.

This sounds like someone who stole other peoples cards and cracked their pins or even used false ID to alter accounts in their names.

Identity theft - using other peoples cards without their knowledge, possibly using fake ID to change the pins at the rewards desk.

Fraud - using the above action to steal the comps and value obtained by others from the casino.

Money laundering - Using the fake identifications/accounts to claim winnings to clean money from criminal activity.

Are you referring to this?

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/12/11/drug-busts.html

EDIT: never mind, there are two dates on the website, todays and the date this article was published in 2013. I didn't see the older one.

Quote: bigfoot66

I'm awfully skeptical that they can charge you a rate different than the agreed rate after you leave. They might TRY, but you would beat them in court in a heartbeat IMO if they pushed the issue. Your honor here is the contract I signed at check in showing that the room would be complimentary. The management tried to change the rate some weeks after I checked out.The idea that you should "confirm that they have withdrawn the 86" is also suspect, why point out to them that they have kicked you out before?

I understand your skepticism. You could be right about it being winnable. I've not been in that exact situation, so I'm extrapolating that it's a qualifying situation. I've been backcharged several times over the years (or the paying person in our party); extra $100 tacked on by Hertz once for extra cleaning a car, took a hotel robe I thought was comped (a long time ago) and was backcharged, we had a messy party in a snow chalet and were backcharged for excessive cleaning (used the fireplace, brought in a lot of food and beer, etc.). All of those showed up several days later/on the next statement without any further notification.

Someone who's been trespassed might have their comp bounce back, especially if the hotel is a client of the casino or vice versa (like the LVHilton was a separate entity from its attached casino and there had to be accounting between the two). In that case, the hotel might well charge rack rate since they didn't get the comp validated. Or, if you're on some exclusion list and they can match you up and prove you knew you were trespassed, they could easily charge your card. But I don't know that they would; I'm just saying they could.

In the particular way he described the 86, when I wrote that, it seemed it might be a valid question. In most cases, I don't think I'd ask the question.

Take the mailer with you and have it on you at all times, get the paperwork from the front desk stating you have a comp room.

Quote: darkoz

Even though nothing came of it, her being surrounded led to a huge argument where she "accused me of sending her into the line of fire" (her words). Not everyone understands the politics of casinos and how much authority security really has. Just be ware before you send your wife in while you remain "protected". You might have more to fear from the wrath of your wife afterwards.

Not true if you are trying to get rid of said girlfriend/wife. Might teach her a needed lesson in respect for her man.

Thought I would close the loop on this one real quick. After receiving another mailer directly from the executive host at the property for $100 in free slots, I gave this gentleman a call as he included his business card in the mailer. I simply told him I would like to accept it, however I am not sure I can, as security asked me to leave the casino and never come back a few weeks ago, without giving me any reason why. I asked if he could check into it and get back to me.

About a day later he called me back and mentioned that security has banned me from returning to the casino (used the term 86ed). He was not able to tell me why, but kindly mentioned that he could not offer any further comps to me and I was not allowed to return.

Talk about a huge disconnect between the security, executive host, marketing, and the hotel. You would think they would have their act together more? I have not returned since and I never will.

It was interesting playing at another nearby casino a few weeks after. I was counting and noticed several security guards by the exit not too far in front of me. They were on their walkie talkies, clearly looking my way, and after a few minutes started waking over towards me. Just as I am thinking not again, they met with a mechanic and started disassembling an ATM machine located directly behind me. I got a good laugh after that one...

I would have taken the room, if that was the only comped room you could get. Then give them no play. Keep the mailer as proof of the comp in case they try to charge you for the room upon leaving (which I'm almost certain they wouldn't). The mailer and room offer have nothing to do with the casino 86ing you. If that weren't true you would never have gotten the comped room offer.

Sleep in the room. Stay off the casino floor. With no action you will almost for sure not get any future comped room offers. (This exact scenario happened to me at one of the Station properties.)