Poll

2 votes (11.76%)
1 vote (5.88%)
6 votes (35.29%)
8 votes (47.05%)

17 members have voted

Wizard
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August 25th, 2015 at 5:08:34 PM permalink
I just returned from my second trip to Washington state this summer. This time I noticed a side bet called the Bust Bonus at the Silver Dollar casino in Seatac. Unlike other side bets on the dealer busting, this one can be made after seeing the up card. Of course, you win less against a weak dealer up card.

Please click the link for a preview of my new page on the side bet. As always, I welcome comments, questions, and especially corrections.

The question for the poll is would you make this bet?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizardofnothing
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August 25th, 2015 at 5:23:02 PM permalink
I think this side bet was also availablein a different variation on blackjack attack or something like that which was available at the tropicana last summer though I do not believe its there any longer. It was a blackjack game where you could double your bet upon seeing the dealer up card and and if the dealer broke with a six as their third card it paid the best with ten being the lowest payout. Anyone know the name of that game?
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Wizard
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August 25th, 2015 at 5:26:42 PM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

Anyone know the name of that game?



Sounds like of like Double Attack Blackjack. The "Bust It" side bet in that game had to made before seeing the dealer up card.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizardofnothing
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August 25th, 2015 at 5:28:11 PM permalink
You are 100 percent right- thanks
On that same question there used to be a game a Caesars that was here seperate blackjack hand and normal rules but dealer got one up card and then played out three. Hands. Any idea what that was or if it is still around
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Deucekies
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August 25th, 2015 at 6:04:26 PM permalink
Paytable has an error. You have no line for Ace up, and say that a 2 up is worth 3:1 or 50:1.
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Wizard
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August 25th, 2015 at 6:28:23 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

Paytable has an error. You have no line for Ace up, and say that a 2 up is worth 3:1 or 50:1.



Thanks; good catch.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Zcore13
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August 25th, 2015 at 7:43:13 PM permalink
This is the most popular side bet I have. Players love it and ask for the table to be open if it's not.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Avincow
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August 25th, 2015 at 9:28:50 PM permalink
what are the limits on this bet?
Wizard
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August 26th, 2015 at 6:29:20 AM permalink
Quote: Avincow

what are the limits on this bet?



I think $1-$25 at the Silver Dollar.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Ayecarumba
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August 26th, 2015 at 9:12:07 AM permalink
I assume the possibility of the 8-8-8 bonus payout is the reason an 8 up has the thinnest house edge with multiple decks. I'm not a counter, but even if I was tracking 8's, a high count and a high concentration of 8's aren't necessarily a good mix for dealer busts. I suspect there is a narrow zone where things would tip toward the player, but is it worth the work?

Also, am I the only one misled by the name of this bet?
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Zcore13
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August 26th, 2015 at 9:16:38 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think $1-$25 at the Silver Dollar.



It's $1-$25 at my place. Players get the option to place the bet after all players play their hand, right before the dealer exposes their down card. Anyone that played the hand, including if they busted, can place a bet.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Wizard
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August 26th, 2015 at 1:32:45 PM permalink
Just going off the top of my head, I think the way to attack this would be with a modified high-low count that treats aces as low or neutral. Then make the side bet against only low cards in a high-card rich deck.

However, with a $25 max bet, I don't think it will be worth the bother of most AP's (by what rule of grammar may I use an apostrophe in that situation, or may I?).
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
CrystalMath
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August 26th, 2015 at 1:55:29 PM permalink
I've seen this in many places in Colorado and it is very popular. Here, you can only make the bet if you are still in the hand. If you got a Blackjack or busted, then you can't bet it. This does cause more mistakes on the base game because people will avoid busting themselves just so they can bet the side bet.

The last time I played, the dealer had 8 up and I split, taking the next two 8s. One guy was very angry, but I made the right play.
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Deucekies
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August 26th, 2015 at 1:58:31 PM permalink
I believe the Crazy Moose Casino in Mountlake Terrace, WA (north of Seattle) has or had this game. IIRC, in addition to the posted maximum, you were not allowed to reverse bet (bet more on the bonus than the hand).
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Ayecarumba
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August 26th, 2015 at 2:16:36 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Just going off the top of my head, I think the way to attack this would be with a modified high-low count that treats aces as low or neutral. Then make the side bet against only low cards in a high-card rich deck....



So tracking 8's would not be as important as counting a solid base game?
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Wizard
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August 26th, 2015 at 9:16:44 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

So tracking 8's would not be as important as counting a solid base game?



I'm not saying that. It would depend on your bet level in the base game.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Zcore13
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August 27th, 2015 at 4:51:39 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

I believe the Crazy Moose Casino in Mountlake Terrace, WA (north of Seattle) has or had this game. IIRC, in addition to the posted maximum, you were not allowed to reverse bet (bet more on the bonus than the hand).



Some casinos just have rules to have rules and they have no real idea why. Why would you not want to let someone wager $25 on the side bet and only $10 on the Blackjack hand?

Blackjack - Less than 1% house advantage
Bust Bonus - 4% - 10%

Same as why can't players play just the Pair Plus or just the 6 Card Bonus if they want to in Three Card Poker?
Or why do casinos force players to touch Three Card Poker with only one hand, but UTH it's ok to use two?

A lot of not so smart people out there...


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Avincow
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August 27th, 2015 at 6:57:13 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Some casinos just have rules to have rules and they have no real idea why. Why would you not want to let someone wager $25 on the side bet and only $10 on the Blackjack hand?

Blackjack - Less than 1% house advantage
Bust Bonus - 4% - 10%

Same as why can't players play just the Pair Plus or just the 6 Card Bonus if they want to in Three Card Poker?
Or why do casinos force players to touch Three Card Poker with only one hand, but UTH it's ok to use two?

A lot of not so smart people out there...


ZCore13



...or why limit a side bet to $25
Zcore13
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August 27th, 2015 at 7:08:29 PM permalink
Quote: Avincow

...or why limit a side bet to $25



That's a different story. Not comparable to a game rule.

Tribal Casinos, especially smaller ones, use their profits to support the Tribal members. Many/most due monthly checks as well as an annual disbursement. No matter him much is made in a previous month, the need a minimum amount to cover their payments and expenses. A couple $50,000 or $100,000 hits could be devestating.

No dint get me wrong, a well run Tribal Casino has plenty of money saved up in reserve, but it takes a lot to get that out and to be able to use it. It's not just a simple check or transfer.

Silly game rules affect player experience. Bet limits are based on the individual casinos risk tollerance.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Deucekies
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August 28th, 2015 at 1:43:07 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Some casinos just have rules to have rules and they have no real idea why. Why would you not want to let someone wager $25 on the side bet and only $10 on the Blackjack hand?



Because as others have mentioned already, the bonus is beatable for a counter.

The Pair Plus and 6 Card Bonuses are not good analogies. Those house advantages are static from hand to hand. Blackjack side bets, especially this one, fluctuate in house advantage.
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Zcore13
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August 28th, 2015 at 2:43:39 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

Because as others have mentioned already, the bonus is beatable for a counter.

The Pair Plus and 6 Card Bonuses are not good analogies. Those house advantages are static from hand to hand. Blackjack side bets, especially this one, fluctuate in house advantage.



How is that different than the base game of Blackjack? Why not limit that to $10 then??
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Gabes22
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August 28th, 2015 at 3:05:59 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Some casinos just have rules to have rules and they have no real idea why. Why would you not want to let someone wager $25 on the side bet and only $10 on the Blackjack hand?

Blackjack - Less than 1% house advantage
Bust Bonus - 4% - 10%

Same as why can't players play just the Pair Plus or just the 6 Card Bonus if they want to in Three Card Poker?
Or why do casinos force players to touch Three Card Poker with only one hand, but UTH it's ok to use two?

A lot of not so smart people out there...


ZCore13


I have often thought of it as a way of not putting the casino at too much of a risk for a huge loss. Blackjack is basically a 1:1 payout game, unless you get blackjack after all but sidebets are not. At Rivers Casino in Des Plaines, I sometimes play the Lucky Lucky bonus, and there are payouts that are as high as 200:1. Is the casino comfortable on a $25 min with a $2500 max feel comfortable losing half a million if suited 777 comes up with a $2500 side bet.
I do agree with your logic however, that it is a bet that would net the casino more in the long term if they offered it at those levels
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Zcore13
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August 28th, 2015 at 3:25:54 PM permalink
Quote: Gabes22

I have often thought of it as a way of not putting the casino at too much of a risk for a huge loss. Blackjack is basically a 1:1 payout game, unless you get blackjack after all but sidebets are not. At Rivers Casino in Des Plaines, I sometimes play the Lucky Lucky bonus, and there are payouts that are as high as 200:1. Is the casino comfortable on a $25 min with a $2500 max feel comfortable losing half a million if suited 777 comes up with a $2500 side bet.
I do agree with your logic however, that it is a bet that would net the casino more in the long term if they offered it at those levels



Yes it would, but for Tribal Casinos, especially smaller ones, the monthly checks to the Tribal members are the most important thing.

I'd be happy to increase my limits. Higher wager mean more net win. But I limit side bet games with 1000-1 payouts to $10. Lesser payout games to $25.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
countdemonet
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September 8th, 2015 at 9:12:15 PM permalink
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