NokTang
NokTang
Joined: Aug 15, 2011
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April 22nd, 2015 at 9:02:26 PM permalink
Quote: Avincow


I think a formal letter requesting video review of his previous play is the only way to get reinstated. .



I'm sure they will dig out the video records and review them. Face it, he/she's small player they caught on to and are making an example of. You, said business, can only do this when times are good. Borgata gets so much free good publicity they I'm sure like I say will really be inclined to go back and look at video of a small black jack player. They have considered the fact they might lose him as a customer, and don't care.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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April 22nd, 2015 at 11:02:06 PM permalink
Quote: TedM

Hi All,

Looking for some help and insight on this. Have been going to Borgata for over 10 years and play mostly blackjack, i probably go on average once a month or every other month. I recently logged into my Rewards account and noticed all my offers were gone and comp room dates were gone. I called them up and was transferred to a table games manager and told that I have been classified as a skilled player and therefore going forward I can come play bj but must follow their rules of playing one hand, betting limits and they have the right to shuffle halfway through the shoe. I may have gotten some of the exact details wrong with what she said but it was along those lines. To be honest with you I had no idea what skilled player even meant and when I asked the table games mgr, all she said was since I am not profitable to them anymore they can refuse to provide me with comp dollars moving forward.
I was still confused about this and looked up skilled player which led me to advantage playing, card counting, and this forum. I do not count cards or do anything to gain an advantage. I usually go to the no mid shoe entry pit at Borgata and go to the $25 or $50 minimum tables. I cash in 1k-2k usually and will usually start off firing $100 and then increase it slowly if I am on a good winning streak. If I lose a bunch of hands in a row and feel like I am a little unlucky or running bad I will bet the minimum 25-50 and finish off the shoe. If I hit a few double downs or win a few hands in a row I will add to my bet. Normally once I get to $500 a hand range is where I max out and I only play one hand. The only times I will play a second hand is when the dealer is seemingly on a hot streak and everyone on the table agrees someone should play an extra hand to break it up a little and usually after that I go back to one hand.
Could it be that on a recent session when I was running good they figured I was counting. If they hired a team of people to root out card counters, they are not doing a good job because I am not a card counter.
I have a host who I reached out to and he said this was out of his hands and could not do anything. It just sucks because whenever I do go to AC, I prefer to play there, have a host, get rooms and eat most of my meals down there. Just wanted to see what everyone thinks I should do, and if there is any chance I may be affected if I play at other AC properties or even Vegas. I called one other time and the shift manager guy I spoke to suggested I call another time and ask for the VP or Director of table games, but it felt like he was just trying to pass the buck and not really help answer my questions.


I also searched through previous threads and someone had a similar situation to me but back in 2012 so not sure if anything has changed since then. Also saw some posts from some user named Lemieux but seemed like everyone thought he was overly paranoid or lying.

thanks in advance!

I like the fact that you explained how you found this site. It sounds like you read enough of it to know, if you hadn't explained that part someone might assume you were someone else posing under a new name.

I'm surprised the casinos actually admit they target skilled players anymore. That's very bad PR.

You can talk to a host, but it's rare
management will ever change their minds.

I have only seen a casino derision like this get reversed a few times in 15 years. Even then, they almost always leave some kind of notes in the computer. Even if you unlock your old earned comps, future ones are usually blacklisted and you get no mailed.

You're not an AP so it shouldn't bother you much. Find a new place and rebuild comps. Sometimes casinos they give extra to new members.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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April 23rd, 2015 at 6:44:36 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Comps are supposed to be a reward for putting in action. Wins or losses really shouldn't have to do anything with it.


No, comps are a way to try to keep you happy while you continue to lose. Comps are them giving you a small fraction of your theoretical loss back to make you feel like you're getting something for your money, when in reality all they're doing is buying your buffets, rooms, etc, with your own damn money.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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April 23rd, 2015 at 6:46:23 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

No, comps are a way to try to keep you happy while you continue to lose. Comps are them giving you a small fraction of your theoretical loss back to make you feel like you're getting something for your money, when in reality all they're doing is buying your buffets, rooms, etc, with your own damn money.


Sure that's how they are treated now a days but that wasn't the intent went first implemented many years ago.
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
TedM
TedM
Joined: Apr 22, 2015
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April 23rd, 2015 at 8:04:48 AM permalink
Quote: mrfrancks

Given what you are describing, it is really surprising that Borgata would take such action even if your were counting. An occasional 20:1 spread (even if it was coincident with a high count) is not going to beat that game (and they know that). A top bet of $500 and a top win of $5000 should not have put you on their radar. If you're really interested in getting this reversed I would recommend sending a letter to the CEO of Borgata laying out your case in a firm and businesslike manner. Don't disparage them but don't grovel either. Emphasize your long history of play. Ask to have your comps restored and your status and offers reinstated. I would suggest sending the letter using FedEx or some other overnight delivery service. That will make sure that it gets noticed and responded to promptly.

I have done this in the past when I have had issues with a casino and have always gotten positive results. Good Luck.



thanks for the suggestions mrfranks, definitely considering that as an option.
TedM
TedM
Joined: Apr 22, 2015
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April 23rd, 2015 at 8:08:47 AM permalink
Quote: zoobrew

For all the people telling you to move on, I guess they are okay with being be banned from the Ritz and now finding Holiday Inn as an acceptable replacement.



haha yea that definitely is a good analogy. Maybe I can find at least a Marriott as a possible replacement then lol
TedM
TedM
Joined: Apr 22, 2015
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April 23rd, 2015 at 8:23:55 AM permalink
Quote: NokTang

I'm sure they will dig out the video records and review them. Face it, he/she's small player they caught on to and are making an example of. You, said business, can only do this when times are good. Borgata gets so much free good publicity they I'm sure like I say will really be inclined to go back and look at video of a small black jack player. They have considered the fact they might lose him as a customer, and don't care.



The thing I am not sure about is their review process, do they have a bunch of entry level surveillance guys trying to look good to upper management by saying hey we caught x number of guys this month for you. Or do they have a thorough veteran team that really truly investigates a player before they make the decision. Borgata seems to be doing well and they probably figure they have plenty of people to take my place anyway. I also wonder how many "skilled players" they discover on a weekly/monthly basis.
TedM
TedM
Joined: Apr 22, 2015
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April 23rd, 2015 at 8:34:30 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I like the fact that you explained how you found this site. It sounds like you read enough of it to know, if you hadn't explained that part someone might assume you were someone else posing under a new name.

I'm surprised the casinos actually admit they target skilled players anymore. That's very bad PR.

You can talk to a host, but it's rare
management will ever change their minds.

I have only seen a casino derision like this get reversed a few times in 15 years. Even then, they almost always leave some kind of notes in the computer. Even if you unlock your old earned comps, future ones are usually blacklisted and you get no mailed.

You're not an AP so it shouldn't bother you much. Find a new place and rebuild comps. Sometimes casinos they give extra to new members.



Yea the forum crowd on any site can be rough if you don't show that you at least attempted to research a little yourself. Didn't want people to start posting old thread links and ask why I didn't use the search button lol, so figured I laid out everything I could first and hope for the best haha. Everyone has been helpful so far, so that's good.

I guess if I can't go back to Borgata, will just have to play elsewhere unless they shared their info with other properties.
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
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April 23rd, 2015 at 10:12:51 AM permalink
Quote: TedM

Yea the forum crowd on any site can be rough if you don't show that you at least attempted to research a little yourself. Didn't want people to start posting old thread links and ask why I didn't use the search button lol, so figured I laid out everything I could first and hope for the best haha. Everyone has been helpful so far, so that's good.

I guess if I can't go back to Borgata, will just have to play elsewhere unless they shared their info with other properties.



Actually it could help if they shared your info. Perhaps then a qualified pit person who knows how to count and what to watch for would take a closer look at your play and see you are not counting. They would then probably welcome your play with open arms and comps.
GWAE
GWAE
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
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April 23rd, 2015 at 10:35:59 AM permalink
Quote: TedM

Yea the forum crowd on any site can be rough if you don't show that you at least attempted to research a little yourself. Didn't want people to start posting old thread links and ask why I didn't use the search button lol, so figured I laid out everything I could first and hope for the best haha. Everyone has been helpful so far, so that's good.

I guess if I can't go back to Borgata, will just have to play elsewhere unless they shared their info with other properties.



if you didn't post the lemieux part at the end I was going to say something like Mario is that you? or Can I still get the $10 buffet?

Good luck getting it resolved. I don't think anyone ever gets a casino decision reversed.

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